Oakham School CCF Collar badge, Rutland (Leics)

[GriffMJ]

Oakham School CCF
Just showing the cap badge.....

[oc14]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Not guilty..... I was just looking and it was the first one I had seen up close. One of my sons riding chums goes to Oakham School and I might ask him to get me one (or two) My sons new school's CCF wears the Royal Anglians cap badge

Ratcliffe College CCF, Leics.

Oakham no longer wear this pattern of badge (they also wear the Royal Anglian Regiment cap badge). I don't know when they stopped wearing it but they were not wearing it in 2004 when I had my first contact with the Contingent.
I know the Contingent Commander of Ratcliffe College CCF very well - it was one of the Contingent's that the Cadet Training Team that I commanded supported the training of and I was the brigade reporting officer for !

PL

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Been away out of inter web range.

Seems the badge on eBay went for 51 pounds - blimey!!!

Regards

Chris

[davec2]

Despite a lot of collectors averaion to the Staybrite badge, I've heard that this is one of the badges ideal for investing in for the future ?

It never fails to amaze me at the differences in the prices being achieved by the various A/A badges just lately ( needless to say I bet most of mine fall into the basement price bracket ), sadly, I don't have the nounce to recognise the rare and valuable badges, I do have one to the Wiltshire Regiment which I believe, isn't a ' cheapo '...........

However, those that can, must be in a position to collect a nice little " nest-egg " for the future and in recognising that fact, I for one must congratulate anyone who is doing this, so the winner of this badge must surely know what he's doing ??

Just my thoughts on this subject ........

Dave.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by davec2

Despite a lot of collectors averaion to the Staybrite badge, I've heard that this is one of the badges ideal for investing in for the future ?

It never fails to amaze me at the differences in the prices being achieved by the various A/A badges just lately ( needless to say I bet most of mine fall into the basement price bracket ), sadly, I don't have the nounce to recognise the rare and valuable badges, I do have one to the Wiltshire Regiment which I believe, isn't a ' cheapo '...........

However, those that can, must be in a position to collect a nice little " nest-egg " for the future and in recognising that fact, I for one must congratulate anyone who is doing this, so the winner of this badge must surely know what he's doing ??

Just my thoughts on this subject ........

Dave.

Hi Dave,

Some A/A badges are going up in prices unheard of a few years ago while most though will always be a five to ten pound item due to the vast numbers that were made.

I have identified 348 A/A badges that I have found to have been both officially authorised for issue and also manufactured. Add to this a further 10 that look genuine but for which I have no info on and we have 358 items. This total includes ACF and CCF units (which really are a law unto themselves) and Royal Marines.

Most ACF and CCF badges are scarce while some are very rare indeed. The Oakham School badge is relatively common and I was peeved at paying 17 pounds for mine a few months ago.

In my opinion there are 53 rare A/A badges out there in collector land of which, for some units, single pieces only are know of.

I am working hard to get this book finished by June and this seems achievable - all will be revealed then.

Regards

Chris

[davec2]

Cheers Chris,

Thanks for that info !

I appreciate the fact that some people love A/A and others absolutely hate them, I have been half way in my feelings although my own badges ( Junior Learders Reg't cap and D.E.R.R. collars ), were A/A, consequently, I only have about twenty or so, mainly Scottish and new Cavalry but I have only been collecting for about eight years !

I can however see that your book is going to be of so much use to all collectors, not only those who do collect Staybrite, in fact, I, who has been described in the past as being parsimonious, no name no pack drill my Welsh friend, may even try to get a copy myself

Regards.

Dave.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

I have identified 348 A/A badges that I have found to have been both officially authorised for issue and also manufactured. Add to this a further 10 that look genuine but for which I have no info on and we have 358 items. This total includes ACF and CCF units (which really are a law unto themselves) and Royal Marines.

Have you included RAF in that Chris ?

Ive checked through the information i have and have come up with well over 400 badges.That does not include manufactures errors or blackened badges except for High Wycombe GS.

[Mike H]

57 fakes,errors and blackened badges

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Have you included RAF in that Chris ?

Ive checked through the information i have and have come up with well over 400 badges.That does not include manufactures errors or blackened badges except for High Wycombe GS.

Hi Mike,

No have not included RAF although Royal Marines were thrown in (five or six pieces including different types of crown items with different fittings - all official). Most books also include RM with army badges so just continuing the style so to speak.

The High Wycombe GS is actually the Buckinghamshire ACF. There are a few other offical black badges too - 2nd Gurkhas being one of them.

Remember that my count (with exception of ACF and CCF) is based on:

a) Offically authorised at War Office and MoD level - info taken from official documents

b) Believe manufactured - examples exist with manufacturing attributes of era and maker

With the exception of the ACF and CCF the count is not based on 'examples' found in collections. Subdued badeges were never authorised at War Office or MoD level although many were commissioned at regimental level and worn on official duties.

Most fakes are easily spotted but the Gaunt unofficial commissions can be a bit harder especially if they have post anodising manufacturers markings on them.

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

I forgot to mention 2nd gurkhas.I meant items such as black rgj .I know that I'm missing some badges,I can think mf at least 3 or 4 that I haven't included. Evem without the raf your count seems low.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Mike H

I forgot to mention 2nd gurkhas.I meant items such as black rgj .I know that I'm missing some badges,I can think mf at least 3 or 4 that I haven't included. Evem without the raf your count seems low.

Hi Mike,

All the badges in my count are all derived from official documentation less 10 'possibles' which look like the real thing but which I have no doco for.

There are a lot of mistakes out there too in collector land which have mistakenly been wrongly incorporated into collections as 'officer' and 'cadet' issue items.

The only official black badges that I have official War Office and MoD documentation for are (please excuse code at front of unit name as I'm cutting and pasting):

AAB09 – 14th/20th King’s Hussars [Black] - bit of gold on this one too.
AAB14 – The King’s Royal Hussars - bit of gold on this one too.
AAE01 – 2nd King Edward VII’s Own Gurkha Rifles (The Sirmoor Rifles)
AAF14 – Royal Army Chaplains’ Department (Christian)
AAF15 – Royal Army Chaplains’ Department (Jewish)
AAP02 – Buckinghamshire ACF

Remember, that I am working at War Office and MoD level. Some subdued badges were commissioned at regimental level and worn on official duties but these were never sanctioned (as far as I can ascertain) by the War office or MoD. Most subdued badges however were commissioned by dealers for sale onto a unknowing public - eBay is full of these pieces.

Can I ask you what you are basing your count on?

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

3 major collections plus information on this forum.I have images of virtually every item exept for maybe 6 badges two of those collections are held by forum members.those are the black badges I've counted. Rgj,para and d and d etc aren't counted in the total

[bess55]

Originally Posted by oc14

Oakham no longer wear this pattern of badge (they also wear the Royal Anglian Regiment cap badge). I don't know when they stopped wearing it but they were not wearing it in 2004 when I had my first contact with the Contingent.
I know the Contingent Commander of Ratcliffe College CCF very well - it was one of the Contingent's that the Cadet Training Team that I commanded supported the training of and I was the brigade reporting officer for !

PL

Gents,
may sound odd, but can anyone confirm/evidence that this badge was worn by Oakham school as a cap badge?

I recall reading that Oakham school wore the Leicestershire Regt cap badge with the 'Oakham' badge as a collar badge. I cannot remember where I read this - I'm sure it was not on a thread on this forum.

I appreciate that the rear fixings do not conform to that usually seen with (anodised) collar badges, but in truth many of the 'school/college' cap badges have lugs where one may well have expected to see a slider.

Regards all

Bess

[hagwalther]

Hi Bess,

The amount of time that I have spent into researching ACF/CCF badge for the amount of generated output beggars belief. The problem is while official (note the word official) info on senior units is pretty much out there in the archives there is very little on ACF/CCF badges and basically none on when you get down to individual units. This is because that while senior unit badge went through a set procedure on procurement followed by their recording in official documentation ACF/CCF items did not. Their procedure was to provide a sketch of a proposed badge to the controlling ACF/CCF authority, a few gin a tonics and bingo - the design was approved. Problem is that this was seldom officially (again, note the word officially) recorded, or if it was, I can't find it.

Therefore, and reluctantly, I have given the benefit of doubt for many of the ACF/CCF badges shown in my forthcoming book which includes the Oakham SchoolCCF. However, saying that, when investigating these badges it was found that many CCF/ACF badges were not A/A but were made of a similarly looking material. I am currently trying to find out what this material is but again, very little if no official documentation exists. Hence many collectors think that they have a rare A/A CCF cap badge when it is in fact made of something else.

Going back to Oakham. I can only assume the badge was worn as a cap badge. The other issue is that all A/A badges (except those exempted by the War Office and Army Dress Committees) were to be made with sliders as per official specification. In the case of ACF/CCF most come with lugs - why? - dunno.

A/A ACF/CCF badges are, to me at least, a real problem and an area which is fraught with contradiction for the collector.

Regards

Chris

[GriffMJ]

Just to add to what Chris has said....... the LDYPAO "F" Squadron ACF wear the insignia of the LDYPAO. All of their items are made locally by a company that can copy the original badge and then reproduce them. All of these badges have the pin and clasp fitting and come in either white or yellow metal. The cadet Officers will "paint" the badges with a silver paint to get the contrasting colour. None of these badges are made officially...... but they are all worn "Officially"