MHS Machine Gun Corps Special Number 2015

[2747andy]

Having just received the May MHS Bulletin, I must say I am delighted with enclosed booklet on the MGC. A first class reference work and my congratulation and thanks to Alan Jeffreys and Gary Gibbs on their work.

The critic in me however must raise the issue that it is unfortunate that it may as with may reference works, contain images of reproduction cap badges? It is a shame as I'm sure had they asked members of this Forum they could have furnished them with some genuine examples and indeed examples not shown.

Badges I believe to be dubious are;

* Both GMGR Cap badges, (page 62) they appear to be from similar dies and both have features found on the plethora of fake variations. They also make no reference to the OSD badge.

* MMG - I also feel the badge top left of page 57 may not be the real deal either as it has lug fittings?

* ORs Wm GMGBn - Although it may just be the quality of the scan (?) the badge featured has more features akin to the many copies than it does an original example.

However these are just small disappointments on what is a fantastic production

Andy

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Andy,
Quite frankly, although, I have not seen a copy yet, I am staggered that they would not have taken the trouble to photograph original badges for the article, very disappointing indeed.
Regards Frank

[Peter Brydon]

Having just got home and found my copy of The Bulletin and the Special Number waiting for me,my immediate thought is what great value for money.

Frank, I would be interested in hearing your further thoughts when you have had an opportunity of reading your copy.

Peter

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Andy,
Quite frankly, although, I have not seen a copy yet, I am staggered that they would not have taken the trouble to photograph original badges for the article, very disappointing indeed.
Regards Frank

Frank,
I doubt if they even suspected they were not including the genuine article, but I would not have raised the point if I did not have doubts! Perhaps they can put out an amendment, as this will surely be a reference work that will be used for quite a while and it a shame for it not to be spot on! I would have let them have access to a MMG and GMGBn OSD cap badge to add plus some variations of the ORs MMG badge!

Peter,
yes very good value, you cannot get better than free!

Andy

[badger123]

I too have just got home and had a marvellous surprise when I saw the publication. Fantastic.

The cloth badges are enough to make a serious WW1 collector have a green envy fit to last months.

Well done the authors and MHS.

Ivan

[Graham Stewart]

MGC 001.jpg

The cover of the booklet, which is a 'must have' for all those interested in the M.G.C.. I am certainly more than happy with it and must congratulate both contributing authors - Alan Jeffreys & Gary Gibbs on a long overdue publication.

[Nozzer]

I must agree, a valuable source and one that has been long over due. Many thanks to both Alan Jeffreys and Gary Gibbs for what I am sure will be a highly sought after publication.

Andy

[BWEF]

Mine arrived this morning, and I am very much looking forward to reading it.

[Mike B]

The publication is something of an eyeopener in terms of the scope of the subject - obviously a lot of work has gone into accessing the sources acknowledged.

I am sure I am not alone in encouraging members of the Forum to consider joining the Military Historical Society, which has provided a free special publication, to its members, each year for many years now.

Details here for those interested:

http://www.themilitaryhistoricalsociety.co.uk/

Many will agree that good sound research is increasingly important within our shared hobby.

Mike

[Staffsyeoman]

How very interesting. When I challenged an author for putting an obviously fake Yeomanry cap badge into a recent best-selling book illustrating WW1 British cap badges, I was pilloried by the author (a member here, I think) and other members. Yet here, we are criticising a long overdue work for not using "genuine examples". I have not received mine yet, but I hope it corrects some errors which had crept into Major Waring's work.

Some time ago, I was working on the history of the MGC, and there was a gentleman in Dorset - a former Technical WO1 in the RTR called Alan Simcock who had done an enormous amount of work on MGC cloth insignia based on Bovington's archives (including finding the errors). Alan was not well when last we corresponded and I fear he is no longer with us.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Staffsyeoman

How very interesting. When I challenged an author for putting an obviously fake Yeomanry cap badge into a recent best-selling book illustrating WW1 British cap badges, I was pilloried by the author (a member here, I think) and other members. Yet here, we are criticising a long overdue work for not using "genuine examples". I have not received mine yet, but I hope it corrects some errors which had crept into Major Waring's work.

Some time ago, I was working on the history of the MGC, and there was a gentleman in Dorset - a former Technical WO1 in the RTR called Alan Simcock who had done an enormous amount of work on MGC cloth insignia based on Bovington's archives (including finding the errors). Alan was not well when last we corresponded and I fear he is no longer with us.

I'm probably going to get slated here, but my whole point in starting this thread is that in these days of overwelming access to information, if you are going to go to a lot of effort to produce a 1st class reference work then it is worth exploring all aspects and sources available to make it that "1st Class". Using repro badges (fakes) just sadly erodes the credibility, unless you are prepared to revise/update such a work to make it credible!

I suspect you refer to the Peter Doyle books, and whilst they are very contemporary, they have far too many fakes gracing the pages, in particular the Yeomanry section which are at least a third fake, which spoils an otherwise fantastic set of reference books!

Andy

[Frank Kelley]

I think that in the case of a book which is actually about badges, a book which may become to be held in high regard by collectors, to show badges that are not original within the same is at best, irresponsible, at worst, completely pointless, unless, they are clearly shown as such by the author.
In a regimental history, I would say that it is merely disappointing, but, this sort of thing has been going on for many years now, much the same as the amount of fake badges that are on display in various museums.

QUOTE=2747andy;309768]I'm probably going to get slated here, but my whole point in starting this thread is that in these days of overwelming access to information, if you are going to go to a lot of effort to produce a 1st class reference work then it is worth exploring all aspects and sources available to make it that "1st Class". Using repro badges (fakes) just sadly erodes the credibility, unless you are prepared to revise/update such a work to make it credible!

I suspect you refer to the Peter Doyle books, and whilst they are very contemporary, they have far too many fakes gracing the pages, in particular the Yeomanry section which are at least a third fake, which spoils an otherwise fantastic set of reference books!

Andy[/QUOTE]

[manchesters]

I totally agree with Andy and Frank.

People quote K & K as the bible now, imagine if that happens in the future with these type of books displaying fakes as the real thing. Our collections will be worthless.

regards

[jamyam]

I am amazed how a simple comment can explode into a life of its own. Andy made a comment about four badges in a comprehensive publication illustrated with the collections of badges in the Imperial War Museum and the Guards Museum.
One of these was identified by the authors as an Officer's private purchase, another was "may not be the real deal" and another was "may just be the quality of the scan".
This has led to expressions of dismay and criticism of this publication and other works, including comments by people who have not even seen the publication.
I would rather join the other members who have contributed to this thread by congratulating the authors on bringing together a vast amount of information on this subject into a single publication.
I would also point out to anyone wishing to purchase a copy through the MHS website, that the postage charges are currently appearing at about ten times the actual rates. UK should be £1.50, Europe is £4 and airmail is £5.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by jamyam

I am amazed how a simple comment can explode into a life of its own. Andy made a comment about four badges in a comprehensive publication illustrated with the collections of badges in the Imperial War Museum and the Guards Museum.
One of these was identified by the authors as an Officer's private purchase, another was "may not be the real deal" and another was "may just be the quality of the scan".
This has led to expressions of dismay and criticism of this publication and other works, including comments by people who have not even seen the publication.
I would rather join the other members who have contributed to this thread by congratulating the authors on bringing together a vast amount of information on this subject into a single publication.
I would also point out to anyone wishing to purchase a copy through the MHS website, that the postage charges are currently appearing at about ten times the actual rates. UK should be £1.50, Europe is £4 and airmail is £5.

Well said - considering it's the 'collectors' who rely on the 'researchers' and their relentless hunting through sources, to bring all of this together, so that the hobby can be enjoyed. Again considering the number of illustrations of genuine items and the recording of others from other sources and then to 'criticise' about the possibility of some being 'duff' and then declare it 'irresponsible' is beyond me.

As a co-author of two publications and a number of articles, you do your damnedest to be 100% accurate, but we may not always succeed - however being 99.9% accurate isn't too bad under the circumstances and I don't think too many 'collectors' out there could do a similar outstanding job on the M.G.C..