Toronto Scottish Backing?

[Belfin]

Hi All,

Does anyone have any idea what the current Toronto Scottish badge backing is? Online info says that their regimental tartan is Hodden Grey or London Tartan, but the only pics I have found show a very dark blue or black looking square behind the badge.

Any help greatly appreciated!

Cheers, Paul.

[Bill A]

Clarification Paul. Do you mean on the glengarry?

[Belfin]

Hello Bill,

I meant the Balmoral/Tam o' shanter. Knew I'd forgotten something in my question!

Cheers, Paul.

[Bill A]

I checked with another collector who is knowledgeable about the Tor Scots. His response indicated the backing for glens is nothing unique, just the black or diced glen with cap badge affixed. The balmoral has a Hodden Grey backing purchased through the London Scots.

[ddaydodger]

That doesn't look like Hodden Grey to me.

[Bill A]

Hi Bruce, It appears to be black. That information came from a fellow in the unit.
No wonder collectors have questions about dress practices.

[Belfin]

That's one of the pics I have. Didn't know if it was black, dark blue, plain or a proper tartan in a shadow.

Cheers, Paul.

[ddaydodger]

It also seems that they have switched balmorals/tam o'shanters from green with a blue tourie, to khaki with a blue tourie. Not sure when this happened, or why.

[Belfin]

Would the Balmorals be different colours for officers and non-commissioned ranks?

Cheers, Paul.

[Michael Dorosh]

It seems to me the Tor Scots have used Gordon tartan for certain things - pipe bag covers comes to mind.

http://tsrpd.com/regiment/allied-regiments.html

According to the link, the regiment also has trews in Gordon tartan. No idea if this translates to badge backings or not, but is another possibility.

[Bill A]

I forwarded a link to this thread to the fellow who was consulted earlier. See what he has to add.

[Belfin]

Here's a couple more pics from the net:





Dunno if the NCO in the top pic has 'tartan-like' lines on his backing? The Officer in the lower pic looks like his backing has been cut with pinking shears rather than a straight edge?

Cheers, Paul.

[John S.]

Paul:
Correct- the tartan backing of hodden grey in my experience is always cut with pinking shears, giving the tartan a zig zag appearance, rather than being straight cut.
Cheers,
John S.

[Jubilee42]

TSR balmorals

From 2014, NCMs have worn a light, khaki green balmoral, blue tourie with a Hodden Grey swatch behind the badge -- it’s the same as the British Army battle bonnett minus the tourie and HG.

From 2012, officers have worn a khaki coloured balmoral, (more Hodden Grey looking) with blue tourie, blue ribbon at back, and a black swatch. In May 2015 the officers switched to a Hodden Grey swatch, so today all ranks have a HG backing behind the badge. Why the delay to remove the black from officers’ balmorals? There was some discussion that the black, a mourning patch, should continue to be worn by officers. There was no solid foundation in tradition, and in time the switch was made. Previous to this, officers wore a lightly tanned balmoral with a black swatch -- then a supplier switch to the London Scottish was made because Ascots, from what I understand, stopped making balmorals.

The standard headdress for NCMs up to this point was the rifle green balmoral with black backing – what has been pictured here. For a long stretch of time particularly in the 1990s, officers did not wear balmorals at all; they work glengarries. That posed a problem for officers deployed overseas as the blue-diced glengarries were easily identifiable from the other side and they became potential targets. In short order they were forced to remove their glens and wear a standard green beret as they had no issue balmorals with them. What of the badge? An embroidered beret cap badge had already been designed for females who joined the regiment. Females at that time were not issued balmorals, just berets (that has changed today – they also wore skirts not kilts, no longer of course) and the cap badge was far too large for a beret, so an embroidered badge was made. In other units the embroidered badge is an officers’ badge, not so in the TSR. Officers wear the same cap badge as NCMs. Only once, during WW II has there been an officers’ badge and that was a one-time order of a ¾ sized silver badge.

Wartime headdress for NCMs was darker, khaki-coloured coarser material balmoral with a blue tourie and navy or lighter blue swatch behind the badge. Officers wore a lighter – fawn coloured softer material balmoral with, in some cases a black not blue swatch. This may be where the black mourning patch swatch story originated from as mentioned above. So both blue and black swatches were worn during the war.

The link to the Gordons is through the London Scottish, (from 1921) now ‘A’ Company The London Regiment (London Scottish) and through them to the Gordon Highlanders, then, The Highlanders (Seaforths, Camerons, Gordons) and today The Highlanders, 4th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Scotland. The link is strong with visits and training exercises taking place regularly between both units. TSR pipers have Gordon tartan pipe bag covers and in the late 1990s, officers were given permission to wear Gordon trews. Previously, some senior officers wore Hodden Grey trews. These are the only two instances of Gordon tartan being worn or seen on parade, actually one. Gordon trews are more for the mess, not seen on parade. There has never been Gordon tartan swatches worn on glengarries, in fact there has never been anything worn behind the badge on a glengarry.

Suttle dress changes happen frequently and DHH has to be consulted and approve. There are many reasons for uniform changes, from suppliers no longer in business, to lack of availability of material, to cost, etc.

Tim Stewart
Historian
TSR

[Bill A]

Thanks Tim. Hope this clarifies the head dress questions you had Paul.
Interesting thread, and it goes a long way as an example of the difficulties collectors have in getting things sorted out correctly.