Norfolk Regt Variant

[RSM]

It's not the best is it? Again I can only assume it's a WW1 variation made by a company formerly producing something other than military badges as their main living. I have only seen two examples of this variation, one I own, the other slipped through eBay a couple of weeks ago, so it's not a common badge. It conforms to the 4554/1897 'ideal', is well detailed, but otherwise not as pleasing as your OP example. Still I can imagine the conversation:

Boss: "Is the Norfolk badge die finished?"
Foreman: "Yes sir, ready now."
B: "Does it have Britannia in a wreath with two berries?"
F: "Yes Sir."
B: "And does she look like she has had her face trapped in a lift door?"
F: "Yes Sir."
B: "Splendid. Right'o, get cracking, chop chop, we need 800 badges produced for yesterday. There's a war on don't you know?"

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by RSM

It's not the best is it? Again I can only assume it's a WW1 variation made by a company formerly producing something other than military badges as their main living. I have only seen two examples of this variation, one I own, the other slipped through eBay a couple of weeks ago, so it's not a common badge. It conforms to the 4554/1897 'ideal', is well detailed, but otherwise not as pleasing as your OP example. Still I can imagine the conversation:

Boss: "Is the Norfolk badge die finished?"
Foreman: "Yes sir, ready now."
B: "Does it have Britannia in a wreath with two berries?"
F: "Yes Sir."
B: "And does she look like she has had her face trapped in a lift door?"
F: "Yes Sir."
B: "Splendid. Right'o, get cracking, chop chop, we need 800 badges produced for yesterday. There's a war on don't you know?"

Hahaha! Like I’m in the room

[Keith Blakeman]

Personally, I think the detail on this one is superb.

[RSM]

Agreed. A nice example, unattached olive sprig and a 'no-berry' variation as well. If I recall there are at least two different 'no-berry' dies, from my (limited) experience. Thanks for sharing.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by RSM

Agreed. A nice example, unattached olive sprig and a 'no-berry' variation as well. If I recall there are at least two different 'no-berry' dies, from my (limited) experience. Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Personally, I think the detail on this one is superb.

Yes, beautifully detailed and in great nick too for a Vic/Edw era badge. Thanks for sharing. Does it have three vent holes behind the scroll?

On a more light-hearted note; execution of detail notwithstanding, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a single example of this pattern badge where the artisan responsible for fashioning Britannia has displayed any decent level of comprehension as to the proportions of human anatomy.

Your example, Keith, definitely has a touch of the Boris Johnsons about it:

042A2C3D-34F4-4AE5-983D-13EF9A301838.jpg

She’s been carrying heavy shopping too by the look of that elongated forearm… definitely something a pregnant woman she should not be doing.

E958E8C0-1334-443B-B44B-D08414F73E4A.jpeg

And RSM’s potential Gaunt looks as though she’s about to rob a bank.

9DDD2539-AEE7-4D01-9C28-F605956C05B7.jpg

And my beloved Britannia might have contracted the Zika virus [weep].

1ED5018F-D045-46F0-8468-A6023DECF1DE.jpeg

Then there’s Otis Lifts’ right arm…

5FE57338-1674-4C0B-B66F-C850C6B765C8.jpg

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Personally, I think the detail on this one is superb.

There is a 1st VB version of this variant (forgot to say).

Don’t really see enough of them to be able to compare with other Norfolk VB versions.

JT

[norfolk regt man]

Originally Posted by RSM

A good point Luke, thanks, and one I hadn't considered.

JT. You're right some of the Ladies leave a lot to be desired. Lambourne are much derided for their effort, but this one is perhaps the worst I have seen. If the chap who made the MM 'punch face/old crone' fake die was ever given an original to copy, it was this badge.

That’s a nasty looking copy.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

There is a 1st VB version of this variant (forgot to say).

Don’t really see enough of them to be able to compare with other Norfolk VB versions.

JT

1st is extremely rare, I don't have one though but my2nd and 4th are almost identical other to each other than the number.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

1st is extremely rare, I don't have one though but my2nd and 4th are almost identical other to each other than the number.

This 1st VB formerly on display at the old Norfolk Regiment Museum, Norwich:

1st VB Norfolk Regt.jpg

JT

[Luke H]

Can never remember which is the rarest, is it 1st or 3rd V.B.? Definitely see a lot of 2nd’s.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Can never remember which is the rarest, is it 1st or 3rd V.B.? Definitely see a lot of 2nd’s.

Not the best photo in the world (apologies). It was taken in the pre-smart phone/image-editing app days.

2nd VB Norfolk Regt.jpg

[Alan O]

I have always suspected that most VBs wore side caps, sometimes with collar badges, until the introduction of the NP caps (Brodrick) in 1903. A few VBs wore these with full sized cap badges. Many did not. In 1905 the peaked cap comes into use and whilst some VBs still wear side caps this does see full sized badges: but only for 3 years until 1908.

Some FSC might have full sized cap badges whilst some units wore the Boer war inspired bush hat (despite being in UK) with or without badges. For example in the Dorsetshire VB's case, they only had 2 badge designs (but similar) that I suspect were only worn on FSC and no full sized cap badge for wear on peaked caps exists until TF days.

There was no universal rule or practice so you see some VBs with full sized badges and some with out.

It's a shame these were not recorded at the time or soon after as it's now too late in the day to find out for many units.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Can never remember which is the rarest, is it 1st or 3rd V.B.? Definitely see a lot of 2nd’s.

They’re the two rare ones. 2nd & 4th turn up fairly regularly.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Can never remember which is the rarest, is it 1st or 3rd V.B.? Definitely see a lot of 2nd’s.

They’re the two rare ones. 2nd & 4th turn up fairly regularly. There’s also the all whitemetal version too. Forum member Beacon View once told me a fellow soldier found one in the shingle when they were training on the ranges in Hythe.

[Neil s]

There is a second W/M version
IMG_20201223_194411.jpgIMG_20201223_194436.jpg