Bent & Parker, and Buttons Ltd.

[Mike H]

Buttons Ltd produced a few early anodised badges.
Green Jackets brigade and Loyal Suffolk Hussars beret badge spring to mind. Im sure there are a few more but not many.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by KLR

B & P were taken over by Gaunts in 1916. Some of their papers are with the Gaunt archives.

Originally Posted by KLR

I think Gaunts were actually bought by someone else (can't remember who at the mo) in the 1970s, who were themselves taken over by Firmin later. I assume the Gaunt stamp was not used (officially) after the 1970s.

Gaunts might well have used B&P dies, but they can't have used B&P "hallmarks".

Gaunt also took over Jennens & Co in 1924 and the J&Co pattern badges they (Gaunts) produced over the next few years are stamped "JR GAUNT LONDON / LATE JENNENS".

Originally Posted by Mike

If B&P continued beyond 1916 independently , I would say the "Makers Mark" hallmark would continue to be B&P from the B&P factory. Even though they were owned controlled and answerable to Gaunt. If not then "Makers Mark" actually means "Company Mark" which is not the impression I am under. -Although I may be wrong. But then it all depends if they continued or not, in their pre takeover form.

makers mark is whoever is registered with the assay office to submit the work, normally the maker.

Not sure how useful the following will be to this thread:

Being theatre-made, the badge below could have been knocked up any time, anywhere though the assumption is that is was produced early-C20th, somewhere like India, perhaps. The badge that this example was cast from was itself struck from a Gaunt die. Examples of this variant bearing the Gaunt mark are in evidence to substantiate maufacturing provenance. However, with regard to this particular badge, there is to the rear of the scroll what appears to be a 'Bent & Parker' mark.

So, this appears to be a badge from a Gaunt die, bearing a B&P mark, albeit cast/theatre-made.

JT QRWS Cast 1.jpg JT QRWS Cast 2.jpg

JT

[KLR]

Crikey, I see that I wrote that ten years ago !

BUT
I have to apologise because B&P was taken over by Gaunt in 1925 (the same year that they took over Jennens & Co - I now have all the take over details).
The mistake was based on their tender / contract book (at NAM) which ended in 1916.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by KLR

Crikey, I see that I wrote that ten years ago !

BUT
I have to apologise because B&P was taken over by Gaunt in 1925 (the same year that they took over Jennens & Co - I now have all the take over details).
The mistake was based on their tender / contract book (at NAM) which ended in 1916.

Julian,

Was there any evidence contained within the Gaunt archive to suggest that Gaunt may have contracted out to B&P, prior to the takeover? I'm trying to make sense of that 'B&P' mark on that pre-1924, Gaunt badge.

JT

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Julian,

Was there any evidence contained within the Gaunt archive to suggest that Gaunt may have contracted out to B&P, prior to the takeover? I'm trying to make sense of that 'B&P' mark on that pre-1924, Gaunt badge.

JT

Cast from an officers badge?

[KLR]

As far as I remember, much of the Gaunt 'business' archives are at B'ham Central Liby which is where I found the dates etc - and change from London to Bham in ?1963/4.
Frankly, I was more interested in the badge archives which are both at Bham (BMAG) and in London (NAM). I could dig out the refs if required.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Cast from an officers badge?

Keith,

I’d have to say not. My feeling is that it was cast using an O/Rs’ badge. The voided tail and foreleg areas being incorporated to provide more officer-like characteristics.

I shall endeavour to provide close-ups in due course, but looking in detail at the aforementioned voids, it can be seen that the maker has (through whichever process utilised) reduced the thickness of some areas of the metal surrounding the voids, leaving less meat on the bones than normally present on the O/Rs’ equivalent.

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by KLR

As far as I remember, much of the Gaunt 'business' archives are at B'ham Central Liby which is where I found the dates etc - and change from London to Bham in ?1963/4.
Frankly, I was more interested in the badge archives which are both at Bham (BMAG) and in London (NAM). I could dig out the refs if required.

Just curious really. Thought I’d ask on the off chance you might have the info to hand.

Many thanks,

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Images as promised:

Leg Void.jpg
Tail Void.jpg

JT

[Mike H]

Just to add a little to this.
I'm looking at a KRRC crossbelt badge in HM silver.
I can see clearly :-
B&P ,anchor in a wavy bottom square,lion in a wavy bottom rectangle gle and "Q" which if I've read the table correctly is 1940.

[Mike H]

I've had some better images. The letter is clearly an "O", not sure if its upper or lower case though. 1913 or 1938.

[The Red Barron]

One more Maker Mark for Buttons Ltd,
Different to the other 2 posted,
Notice the lacking of the T in Ltd.

[billy4294]

Just bought this WAAC badge. Alas the blades have gone west, but I wanted it for the makers mark (only cost a fiver!) The badge shows that Bent and Parker's mark was still being used on badges in early 1917 at least.
Billyh

[gurkharifles]

I have a couple of hallmarked Gurkha items stamped B&P - 8th GR pouch badge 1894 and 1GR Chain and Whistle 1896. Tim

[billy4294]

Very nice
Billyh