British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Airborne, Elite and Special Forces Insignia

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 10-02-22, 08:55 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
One of the most extraordinary fake stories I over heard, was a few years ago at War and Peace. A trader of 3rd Reich medals and uniform etc, was explaining to a punter how he had been on a buying trip in Poland. He was driving down a fairly rural road when he passed a gang of road workers repairing the road surface, gravel, hot tarmac, dirty, muddy, sweaty work - the whole nine yards. He screatched his car to a halt when he noticed that all the workers were wearing black wrap around Nazi armoured crew jackets, with various insignia. The jackets of course were filthy, 'worn' and covered in oil etc. He asked to examine one and found it was extraordinarily good workmanship, very realistic looking, but to his well experienced eye, copies. When he asked where they got them from, they explained that they were wearing them for a few weeks for a guy who basically dropped them a few crates of beer.

Hey presto, worn, rubbed, with the odd hole, genuine sweat marks, smelly etc. You genuinely couldn't make this stuff up!
My late father collected coins (it's in the genes....) and used to get many coin mags. One story that really made us both smile was the gent, way back in the 19th C, who was producing Roman and Greek coins.

To age them, they were placed in a small box attached to the side of a carriage wheel (that shows how long ago that was!) as the carriage went about its travels.

He referred to this process as "taking the old gentlemen for a walk"!

If it's not true, it should be!
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 10-02-22, 09:22 PM
dobw's Avatar
dobw dobw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Wyoming, USA
Posts: 212
Default

You gotta love this hobby! I too have been following this thread and the auction that inspired it, and I wholeheartedly agree with most of the comments that have been made. I have to say, though, that in my 60-years of collecting I have never regretted overpaying for genuine insignia. For me, the pleasure of having that rare item at hand for years, rather than hoping it appears at a bargain price, justifies being temporarily out-of-pocket. Also, the market usually catches up with the sale price and leaves me glad I bought it when I did...

By the way, Tigerlily, you may rethink your betrothal to Bradley Cooper when you see "Nightmare Alley"!
__________________
With regards,
Dob
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 10-02-22, 09:41 PM
Padre's Avatar
Padre Padre is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Padre - yes, research is the key, of course. However the point I'm making is that the 99.99% figure you cite will drop dramatically if this persists, leaving the most experienced collectors unsure. Mike has 60 years in the hobby, I have 40 and I am sure you have very many yourself, but this sort of thing will change the hobby for ever in my opinion as the standard of fakery will leave even most diligent and experienced collectors with doubt in their mind.
True. I have about 45 years collecting, starting with £1.00 badges at my local shop! Research generally doesn't just help identify fake from real, but also unusual bits in a group. I have picked up many scarce items because I have noticed them quietly nestling amongst others in a box or Lot, as have others I'm sure. I remember maybe 15-20 years ago picking up an original RAF '1942' badge in its box of issue. Bosleys had sold one a year or so before at £1400.00. I offered the seller £100.00 and a fiver for postage and got it. In the last two months one was sold at auction with other mixed badges for about £1200.00, which I missed, and the '1942' badge later appeared on ebay, sold by a certain SF seller no longer on here, and sold for about £550.00 It was a fake, with glaring errors, and an expensive mistake considering similar US produced fakes can be bought on ebay for about £20.00.

One problem area is insignia made, as accurately as possible, but for the re-enactors and collectors, but sold as reproductions. Worn by a reinactor or intentionally aged and there it gets tricky. Like many however, the Indian and Pakistani repros are easy to stop when you know what to look for, and I can spot them even in thumbnails, without seeing a close up.

Quote:
I have never tried to get into high end items because I have never had the funds to do so. Give me a £3 patch or badge that fits in my collection, and I am as happy as if it were a £200 patch or badge.
Too true! To me a collection includes more £3.00 badges than £300.00 ones!

But I consider to still be learning all the time, and will continue to do so.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 10-02-22, 10:26 PM
Home Guard's Avatar
Home Guard Home Guard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,896
Default

Padre, at the same time, I do manage a few higher end gems and always love them, but they are not necessarily my favorite pieces. There are some that have no money value, but mean he world to me!!!

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 11-02-22, 07:07 AM
Tigerlily's Avatar
Tigerlily Tigerlily is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: East of England
Posts: 2,336
Default

[QUOTE

By the way, Tigerlily, you may rethink your betrothal to Bradley Cooper when you see "Nightmare Alley"![/QUOTE]


Dob I am Nightmare Alli

I've occasionally felt a bit awkward about my collection, I don't have many expensive pieces(relative term I suppose) and have frequently had people contact me to see if I'd be interested in buying various badges, some of which are way beyond what I would comfortably pay for any item, which can be a bit embarrassing, again its all relative
I don't have the years of collecting that most of you have, but I know what I like, and the ones that are favourites in my collection are extremely modest, one common dirt cheap badge but with real provenance and another a very tiny scarce collar. Not glamorous but that doesn't matter. It's the same with my little sweetheart collection there is the beautiful Garrards Para badge that screams quality, but the ones I'm drawn to are the handmade lucite cut into hearts with attached collar badges or brooched, or hat pinned buttons. There is a real story there that's not immediately felt with a sweetheart still on its backing card. Maybe that's just the romantic in me.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 11-02-22, 09:41 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,262
Default

Hi Ally

I would like to say that I go along with your philosophy in every respect.

Some of my bits have been very cheap and some probably, while not quite the level of this shoulder title, maybe a tad more than any sane person would spend.

The thrill of finding out what a piece is is equal to, if not greater than, the value of the object.

An example of this is very fresh for me and is also an excellent lesson in how useful and informative the Forum is. I'm here referring to the post I made on my little brass "C S" badge.

I've often thought that it is one thing to know something but it is only the truly generous spirited individual who will share what they know.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 11-02-22, 09:52 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,262
Default

While we are trading stories, I'll mention a friend who bought from the UK a group of three Victorian miniatures, two of which were named.

The dealer couldn't tell him anything about the recipient and told him that the "PRs STAFF" on the medals was probably "personal staff" and the owner had no doubt been some flunky to an officer.

I became intrigued and found that it was "Purveyors Staff" and the chap was very well known in Masonic circles and also well-regarded for his service in the Crimea.

I was even able to locate a photo for the owner. This has helped me in many ways add to my random collection as he assures me he would never have had the persistence to look! You do someone a favour and the good guys never forget....
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 11-02-22, 12:15 PM
JON188's Avatar
JON188 JON188 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1,544
Default

Now I know this story is BS. Loads of workmen - working? [/B][/B]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
One of the most extraordinary fake stories I over heard, was a few years ago at War and Peace. A trader of 3rd Reich medals and uniform etc, was explaining to a punter how he had been on a buying trip in Poland. He was driving down a fairly rural road when he passed a gang of road workers repairing the road surface, gravel, hot tarmac, dirty, muddy, sweaty work - the whole nine yards. He screatched his car to a halt when he noticed that all the workers were wearing black wrap around Nazi armoured crew jackets, with various insignia. The jackets of course were filthy, 'worn' and covered in oil etc. He asked to examine one and found it was extraordinarily good workmanship, very realistic looking, but to his well experienced eye, copies. When he asked where they got them from, they explained that they were wearing them for a few weeks for a guy who basically dropped them a few crates of beer.

Hey presto, worn, rubbed, with the odd hole, genuine sweat marks, smelly etc. You genuinely couldn't make this stuff up!
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 11-02-22, 01:18 PM
Padre's Avatar
Padre Padre is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Now I know this story is BS. Loads of workmen - working?
We are talking Poland, not the UK!
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 11-02-22, 02:59 PM
JON188's Avatar
JON188 JON188 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1,544
Default

Good point well presented Padre! ?
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 11-02-22, 03:02 PM
bess55's Avatar
bess55 bess55 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,363
Default

Ha ha! Padre, you took the words right out my mouth! Ha!
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 11-02-22, 03:18 PM
Belly's Avatar
Belly Belly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 591
Default

I was always annoyed that the troop tab had been cut off this title, more so now!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3 Cdo BW 3-002.jpg (26.6 KB, 111 views)
__________________
Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 11-02-22, 04:41 PM
Padre's Avatar
Padre Padre is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly View Post
I was always annoyed that the troop tab had been cut off this title, more so now!
Ouch!
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 11-02-22, 05:10 PM
dobw's Avatar
dobw dobw is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Wyoming, USA
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerlily View Post
[QUOTE

By the way, Tigerlily, you may rethink your betrothal to Bradley Cooper when you see "Nightmare Alley"!


Dob I am Nightmare Alli[/QUOTE]

Touché! Maybe it's Bradley who needs warning...

One beauty of this hobby is that there are infinite avenues of historical interest a person can follow; if one gets too expensive, there is always something else. I don't mean to suggest that I advocate throwing cash around indiscriminately; I was a school teacher. There were many times I had to convince my wife that it was a good idea to combine my birthday, Christmas, and Groundhog's Day gifts for a militaria purchase. Now, however, in later life I do find myself occasionally laying out more to fill those remaining holes...
__________________
With regards,
Dob
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 12-02-22, 08:52 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West
Posts: 2,255
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly View Post
I was always annoyed that the troop tab had been cut off this title, more so now!
Still a great title ...
Good to hear from you again
Mike
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.