Need help to identify this badge - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Brian0338 · #1 21-03-10, 10:43 PM

Posted on another thread on this site is a picture of the hat worn by my Dad in a photo taken some time between the mid 1920s and mid 1930s. The thread is

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ead.php?t=9744

I have had some help on this site, so far I have had advice that it may be the badge of the 1st (Royal) Dragoons, and the other help was that it may be the Devon Yeomanry.

I have researched the Yeomanry, and they were amalgamated in 1920 with another Regiment and changed to an artillery unit, so I guess that one is not the correct Regiment

I would appreciate further assistance from anyone who would care to look at the badge, as I would really like to identify the unit in which my father served. he did tell me it was a mounted unit, and in the full photo on the reference site he does appear with a horse, so I do hope somebody can please assist me.

Alex Rice · #2 22-03-10, 07:58 AM

Hi Brian
Seeing as nobody has replied I'll put my 2cents in. The badge in the photo doesn't look like the Royal Dragoons to me as the shape of the scroll looks wrong. The scroll ends should angle up slightly on a 1RD badge. The scroll looks more like a 3rd Dragoon Guards badge but the upper part doesn't look quite right. I've posted pictures of both so you can compare.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
Cheers,
Alex

tonyb · #3 22-03-10, 05:57 PM

Hello Brian,
Shape looks like Royal Dublin Fusiliers to me. But not certain.
Regards Tony.

tynesideirish · #4 22-03-10, 06:20 PM

Now I'd agree with the previous poster who said Royal Devon Yeomanry. Nothing else comes close.

Whereas the scroll could fit 3 or 4 Yeo and Regular units with POW feathers, they certainly don't look at all like feathers above the scroll to me, and there's certainly no minor ICH DIEN scrolls .

Not all Artillery Converted Yeomanry changed their cap badges to RA ones so your presumtion may be wrong re ruling out the Yeo!

Mike

Brian0338 · #5 23-03-10, 05:40 AM

thanks to Alex, tonyb and tynesideirish - I have looked at each of the suggestions, and the problem is that I know my Dad did not join the Army till mid 1920s, as prior to that he was RN.

I note that the Dublin Fusiliers ended when the Irish Free State came into being in 1920, and I agree 3DG badge does not look the same, and the Yeomanry, even if some kept their old badge when they became Artillery, would not have had horses would they?

I still welcome any other suggestions, not getting desperate, cos I know somebody on this site is going to look and say, of course that is the XXX??? Regiment, and my problems will be starting to the part where I can say Solved at last. thanks to those who have made suggestions so far, keep them coming please.

tynesideirish · #6 23-03-10, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian0338

the Yeomanry, even if some kept their old badge when they became Artillery, would not have had horses would they?

In some cases Horses where used until the early 30's. Also he could have been a groom for the Officers horses.

Where was your dad from? Did he go back to live there when he left the RN? Those days you joined your local
Regiment.

With that scroll, there are only so many badges that it could be. Most of these are ruled out due to shape. We've scoured our collection of books and came up with the most likely options, despite a really poor photo and no other history to go on.

Anyhow good luck with your quest.

2747andy · #7 23-03-10, 09:23 PM

Could it be a North Staffs badge with the rope tips broken off?

Andy

Brian0338 · #8 23-03-10, 09:47 PM

thanks for the help again I have checked the North Staffs, looks as though they may have been in India from the early 30s, and as far as I am aware the only time my Dad served in India was during WW2 when he was in the fleet in the Indian Ocean, and he did not as far as I know serve in India with the Army, or he would certainly have talked about it. He lived in London, in various parts at different times, when he was not in Defence forces (RN from 1916 till early 20s, the Army from mid 20s to mid 30s, then RN again from outbreak of WW2, then Australian Army 1951 to 56, so with almost a lifetime of service his records of service are becoming difficult to put together - I should have paid more attention when he used to talk about it, but was not easy to get him talking about his service, guess that is why I know so little. At the time of his leaving the Army his parents lived either in Brixton or Streatham, and had been in that area for some years, and my parents did not meet till 1936 when he lived in Streatham, and I was always under the impression, from he did tell me, that he was in a mounted unit. Hope I do get some more guesses about the badge, pity it cant be made more clear.

Brian0338 · #9 24-03-10, 01:13 AM

I have been looking carefully at the badge of my Dad, and noticed it has the scroll at the bottom similar or almost the same as the scroll on the badge of the Pembroke Yeomanry, but they became an artillery unit after WW1. I also noted that the scroll is similar to that of 10th Royal Hussars, but can find no details of what they were doing in the period mid 20s to mid 30s. I then looked at 12th Lancers, who also have similar scroll at bottom of their badge, but found their badge changed in 1903 in any case. I then looked at Royal Hussars, but found nothing that was able to help me. I have checked the badge for the period mid 20s to mid 30s for 1st (Royal) Dragoons, and the scroll on their badge is shaped different to the badge my Dad has on his hat, so again I seem to have reached a dead end, as during the period of his service they were in India and Egypt.

Any more help is more than appreciated. I dont have the experience with the topic or the www to be able to know where else to look.

Brian0338 · #10 26-03-10, 05:39 AM

Dont want to make a pest of myself with this issue of chasing the identity of the badge worn on the cap by my Dad in the mid 20s, but I have just spent some time looking at all the badges on the site British Badge Company. I find so many of them that have a scroll on the bottom of the badge, so I then do a search on the Regiment, and in most cases find the badge changed before he enlisted, or the Regiment ceased to exist, was amalgamated, or changed its role before he enlisted. The only thing that is clear to me, is that unless the shape of the badge is distorted because of the angle he is holding his head, the scroll at the bottom of the badge is like a wave, dropped in the middle and drops at each end, and the badge above the scroll is similar to the shape known as "ladies waist" - that is broad and rounded at the bottom, goes in like a waist, then balloons out again on the top half. I can find no badge that was current in the mid 20s to mid 30s that is similar to that one, and hope still that somebody will see it and say of course, it is the badge of X?X? Regiment.

Alex Rice · #11 26-03-10, 06:56 AM

Hi Brian
You are right with your description, but it's a very difficult one to try and id. Do you have any way of finding out his old service number, old papers or anything, that way you could trace him.
Cheers,
Alex

Brian0338 · #12 27-03-10, 05:38 AM

A good suggestion Alex, but I am working through from the other end. I am hoping that if I can identify the Regiment, I can then contact their Museum, and perhaps find they have old nominal rolls of the period, then I can get his Army number, and from that I can make a request to British Archives for a copy of his record of service. I only know he used to talk about his time in the Army and i am sure it was a mounted unit, we used to joke and say that in the photo he just had the head of a horse to show off. But I do know he was a good rider, when I was young I used to hire a horse with my mates, from the local riding school, and he used to ride it and show us how to ride properly and control the horse.

I keep wondering if the other things in the photo would give any clues, the number 8 and the backward S above the stable door, the shirt he is wearing, the dents that appear in his hat at the top, are they indicative of anything at all that could make identification easier. Until I found this site, I had no idea of where to look, I used to look at book with British badges, never found anything, but most of the badges I looked at were modern, it is only from this site that I have found badges the way there were pre WW2 that have an appearance anything close to the shape of his badge, but distortion may prevent me seeing properly, that is why I persist in this search, cos I know that somewhere out there in this forum there is somebody who is going to hit the nail right on the head and tell me the correct Regiment. Thanks for all the help so far, please keep making suggestions, every little helps.

GriffMJ · #13 27-03-10, 02:40 PM

Essex Yeomanry 1918-54 cap badge? I reckon there is a bit of "blurr" an the original photo..... the scroll looks right on the Essex.

But then again....maybe not?

Brian0338 · #14 03-04-10, 01:38 AM

I have checked the Essex Yeomanry site, cant say the badge appears to have the same scroll on the bottom, and I cant find any info on what that Regiment was doing between WW1 and WW2 when my Dad was serving - so again came to a dead end.

Now wondering if there is anybody out there who knows how to digitally enhance the badge so that it can give a better image and thus can be identified.

there must be a computer whiz who reads the badge stuff on this site who can do that, I hope I can find him.

Brian0338 · #15 22-04-10, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Brian
Seeing as nobody has replied I'll put my 2cents in. The badge in the photo doesn't look like the Royal Dragoons to me as the shape of the scroll looks wrong. The scroll ends should angle up slightly on a 1RD badge. The scroll looks more like a 3rd Dragoon Guards badge but the upper part doesn't look quite right. I've posted pictures of both so you can compare.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
Cheers,
Alex

Thanks Alex Rice, but I have recently been given a copy of the attestation papers of my Dad, all the info I had was wrong, the Attestation Papers, from British Archives, show that he enlisted in the 1st (Royal) Dragoons on 2nd March 1920 at the age of 16years and 7 months but he showed his birthdate on the attestation papers as being one year earlier than actual, 1902 instead of 1903, so that clears the mystery for me, and thanks to all members who helped me with this, but it was a lot of heartache and I was ready to give up.