17th Lancer beret badge pick up at flea market - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Tonomachi · #1 17-04-14, 07:48 PM

I know these are widely reproduced especially here in the US for bikers and the like so I was wondering if this was a copy or legitimate badge? It didn't cost much at only 3 dollars at a local flea market. Thanks in advance for your help.

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GriffMJ · #2 17-04-14, 08:03 PM

"Chrome" Belt Buckle Motto (Square lugs N/S)
17th/21st Lancers (Post 1960)
Type: (My Ref:- Gaunt 4)
Makers Marked: un-marked

Yours "looks like" its been copied,..... maybe from one of the AA's..... see below..... but it could be a legit Wm. belt buckle Motto (does it clean up well)?

Tonomachi · #3 18-04-14, 01:51 AM

Thanks for this information and this badge did polish up a little after cleaning but it is definitely not chrome plated. The same badge but cleaned and polished a little.
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GriffMJ · #4 18-04-14, 08:30 AM

Its well made.... I wouldnt throw it away

Tonomachi · #5 18-04-14, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Its well made.... I wouldnt throw it away

Good to know thank you again.

Hussar100 · #6 18-04-14, 01:41 PM

Hi Tonomachi. It might be of some help in the future if you know that the skull and crossbones "Death or Glory" badge you've got is referred to as a "Motto" in British military and collecting circles. You'll note that Griff has referred to it as such in his reply to you (post #2).

Tonomachi · #7 18-04-14, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hussar100

Hi Tonomachi. It might be of some help in the future if you know that the skull and crossbones "Death or Glory" badge you've got is referred to as a "Motto" in British military and collecting circles. You'll note that Griff has referred to it as such in his reply to you (post #2).

Didn't realize that and thanks for the information.

Hussar100 · #8 19-04-14, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonomachi

Didn't realize that and thanks for the information.

You're very welcome mate.

GriffMJ · #9 20-04-14, 11:34 AM

I have seen the actual "chrome" belt buckle motto with that back image, without the blobs etc, see the image below. The chrome belt buckle motto has different back variation as well

Its hard to give a definitive yes or no really? There is no sign of chrome and its just a Wm. base..... I am not sure the belt buckle motto was done in white metal?

Tonomachi · #10 20-04-14, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I have seen the actual "chrome" belt buckle motto with that back image, without the blobs etc, see the image below. The chrome belt buckle motto has different back variation as well

Its hard to give a definitive yes or no really? There is no sign of chrome and its just a Wm. base..... I am not sure in the belt buckle motto was done in white metal?

Great observations and maybe it was a factory reject prior to chroming?

Dave Alexander · #11 27-04-14, 12:24 AM

I don't know when the Regt started wearing belt mottoes, but it was certainly post-'65 when I left. Before that we did not wear a belt with No 2 dress, stable belts (dark blue w/2 French grey stripes) had two leather straps with buckles on the left hand side and dress blues had a scarlet and gold belt with the same kind of straps.

Mike H · #12 27-04-14, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Alexander

I don't know when the Regt started wearing belt mottoes, but it was certainly post-'65 when I left. Before that we did not wear a belt with No 2 dress, stable belts (dark blue w/2 French grey stripes) had two leather straps with buckles on the left hand side and dress blues had a scarlet and gold belt with the same kind of straps.

It would be from whenever the plastic belt was issued from Dave.Plastic belt (white or black) with a chrome plate and wire fixing.The badge fitted centrally.

Hussar100 · #13 27-04-14, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike H

It would be from whenever the plastic belt was issued from Dave.Plastic belt (white or black) with a chrome plate and wire fixing.The badge fitted centrally.

I hated those patent plastic belts. They looked so cheap in my opinion. Granted they were easy to clean but that's all they had going for them.

REMEVMBEA1 · #14 27-04-14, 03:30 PM

Small point here would the 17th Lancers have actually worn a beret before 1922? Also although in the regiment and on this forum the badge is referred to as a Motto I can never recall it being referred to as such by non-cavalry soldiers.

Hussar100 · #15 27-04-14, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

Small point here would the 17th Lancers have actually worn a beret before 1922? Also although in the regiment and on this forum the badge is referred to as a Motto I can never recall it being referred to as such by non-cavalry soldiers.

As far as I know berets wouldn't have been in use before 1939.

In training at the Royal Armoured Corps Training Centre we were taught to refer to the badge as a motto. If I remember correctly it was one of only two regiments in the army who didn't have a cap badge, the other being the Black Watch.

Realistically it is a badge, we all know that, but convention demands it be referred to as the Death or Glory motto. As for non cavalry soldiers not referring to it as such well really, what else would you expect from a pig except a grunt?

If you ain't cav you ain't. Simple as that.