Rogues Gallery 2

[TomPC]

Afternoon team!

I have a few dregs in my collection that I can't identify including the most bizarre version of an artillery badge you'll ever have seen in your lives!

1. West Riding RHA - OK this one is identified and I can see from Westlake that they existed but K&K don't seem to have them. I'm noticing a tall orb going on and presume fakery. Would be interested to know if it's a copy of a genuine badge that existed (because I can't find any official reference to it in K&K).

2. Royal Arms with a Victorian crown - We have looked at this one before and the view was that it might have been a Victorian pouch badge but can anyone help me nail it down for sure? If it can't be pinned to particular regiment or corps, then what kind of soldier might have worn/used one?

3. Royal Welch Fusiliers pouch badge? We have also seen this one before and I just wanted to know what period it was from and when/where it might have been worn. A particular dress? Band? Who wore it?

4. Victorian Connaught Rangers - I have two of these beauties so presume that's a good indicator that it is fake. Is this a copy of a genuine badge that once existed or is it a fantasy?

5. Vishnu Artillery? I'm not hot on Indian deities but the right number of arms for Vishnu who sometimes wore trousers. What madness is this? I'd love to hear speculation on how it might have come into existence. Someone once suggested that after the British left India they might have left their dies behind and someone just had a bit of a play with one.

6. Blue/Red/Light Blue Anchor cloth flash - I can't find any reference for this and don't know if it's military or civilian.

7. Firmin pheasant (?) button - it's obviously been on the ground and the fastening loop on the back is no longer with us. The front (which is probably not clear) shows what I think is a pheasant standing on ground and looking back over its shoulder. Do we think this is a livery or sporting button pure and simple. Or does someone know if it's something specific?

8. Yellow globe/wreath on red background trade/proficiency badge - any ideas?

All views most welcome! (Be gentle)

Best wishes,

Tom

[leigh kitchen]

Connaught Rangers has the repro's die fault beneath the harp and motto scroll.
Yellow and red badge is RM Bandsman's collar badge.
Looks like I was wrong re. the RM collar badge (probably because I associate the badge with a batch of RM Bandsman's tunics that came on the market some years ago).

[TomPC]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Connaught Rangers has the repro's die fault beneath the harp and motto scroll.
Yellow and red badge is RM Bandsman's collar badge.

Thanks, as always, Leigh. Is the badge a repro of an actual badge that once existed? It's not in K&K. Is it meant to be a Connaught Rangers Glengarry badge and do you know where might I see a picture of what a real one should look like?

Thanks,

Tom

[leigh kitchen]

I believe that the Connaught's badge is a "genuine" design but Im not sure, others will be able to specify.

[norfolk regt man]

Your Indian badge reminds me of something I have which is to the Norfolk regt. It’s a menu card holder, yours should have a riveted on base that comes up the back of your badge, it’s a heavy base that hold it all up, about 50 mm in dia and 6mm thick.

[norfolk regt man]

Base could have started life as a shell case.

[TomPC]

Originally Posted by norfolk regt man

Your Indian badge reminds me of something I have which is to the Norfolk regt. It’s a menu card holder, yours should have a riveted on base that comes up the back of your badge, it’s a heavy base that hold it all up, about 50 mm in dia and 6mm thick.

That's interesting. Mine does have rivets on the deity's feet which are obviously meant to be slotted into something. The whole piece is very heavy. Not sure what metal. Iron? It's certainly oxidised.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by TomPC

Thanks, as always, Leigh. Is the badge a repro of an actual badge that once existed? It's not in K&K. Is it meant to be a Connaught Rangers Glengarry badge and do you know where might I see a picture of what a real one should look like?

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

I too believe that the Connaught Rangers badge you show is a reproduction. It is nominally the same as the approved design but the repro. does not have the correct piercing (voiding).

The badge is shown in K&K as KK 356. The design with the narrow harp being worn from 1881 to 1890 according to The Connaught Rangers. (The History of the Regiment.) By Lieut.-Colonel H.F.N. Jourdain ... and Edward Fraser, London 1924, see below. This first Glengarry Forage Cap badge is Sealed Pattern Number (SPN) 10009/1882 sealed on Feb. 2, 1882 (So Jourdain is slightly off in his dates, but otherwise he is very good on regimental insignia, his papers and notes are in the NA and IWM and go into some details on this subject.)

Also shown in KK (as KK357) is the second pattern with the (slightly) redesigned harp. The genuine HPC's and the glengarry badges found with the crowns integrally fitted have pierced/voided centres as shown in KK and in the regimental history (see attached). I have not found pattern numbers for the second design.

I have yet to see any non pierced example considered to be genuine.

John

[TomPC]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Tom,

I too believe that the Connaught Rangers badge you show is a reproduction. It is nominally the same as the approved design but the repro. does not have the correct piercing (voiding).

The badge is shown in K&K as KK 356. The design with the narrow harp being worn from 1881 to 1890 according to The Connaught Rangers. (The History of the Regiment.) By Lieut.-Colonel H.F.N. Jourdain ... and Edward Fraser, London 1924, see below. This first Glengarry Forage Cap badge is Sealed Pattern Number (SPN) 10009/1882 sealed on Feb. 2, 1882 (So Jourdain is slightly off in his dates, but otherwise he is very good on regimental insignia, his papers and notes are in the NA and IWM and go into some details on this subject.)

Also shown in KK (as KK357) is the second pattern with the (slightly) redesigned harp. The genuine HPC's and the glengarry badges found with the crowns integrally fitted have pierced/voided centres as shown in KK and in the regimental history (see attached). I have not found pattern numbers for the second design.

I have yet to see any non pierced example considered to be genuine.

John

Fantastically informative. Thank you, John. Can't understand why I missed them in K&K! (STOP PRESS: Oh, I see why I didn't find them - K&K have forgotten to describe or index KK356 and 357)