WW1 Volunteer Training Corps

[Malcolm Davey]

Dave
Your K.V.F looks ok to me here is my original.
I also have a Middlesex with a slider which i would like peoples opinions plaese

Malc

[41st]

Malc,
I can only comment that the Fattorini marked slider that I have on a Carnarvonshire badge is slimmer at the bottom than the top, by 1mm in fact.
Kevin

[Sonofacqms]

This is a new experience to me, over the last twenty odd years I have had several Middlesex VTC, all with the flat loops. I have never seen one with a slider.

I did say in one or two earlier threads that I am becoming increasingly suspicious of badges with manufacturers names stamped on the sliders, this is the thing that I have noticed that more and more fairly scarce badges keep appearing with names on sliders, this is easier than trying to put names on loops (lugs). As far as I know Gaunt were the only people to put a plaque on other ranks badges such as the Naval Divisions.

[Viletone]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

This is a new experience to me, over the last twenty odd years I have had several Middlesex VTC, all with the flat loops. I have never seen one with a slider.

I did say in one or two earlier threads that I am becoming increasingly suspicious of badges with manufacturers names stamped on the sliders, this is the thing that I have noticed that more and more fairly scarce badges keep appearing with names on sliders, this is easier than trying to put names on loops (lugs). As far as I know Gaunt were the only people to put a plaque on other ranks badges such as the Naval Divisions.

This is a very good point and without dismissing the badges shown out of hand without other examples. In my case I can only point to the following Fattorini badge in my collection which is a Leys School (Cambridge) OTC. This is flat back, cast with their branding and once again has the unusual flat loops. Why would a company associated with manufacturing badges with this process revert to die stamping with named sliders?

My pair of Middlesex VTC collars also have flat lugs.

As for makers plates and markings, for some reason there are quite prevelent on VTC's. Makers plates appear on the London ones (Gaunt) whilst others seem quite regional, certainly the Essex one is.

I wouldn't totally dismiss the branding of slidered badges as being repro because low numbered private purchases are a whole different ball game from Battalion sized orders and as there are hundreds of the things it's maybe worthwhile making a database of known and suspected good examples from the likes of Bosley's and ebay listings whenever they arise.

[41st]

The Carnarvonshire example with the slider that I have is quite different from the common fake, not repro as the die is different. It is the same pattern as those that have been offered for auction on the rare occasion that they come up and to my knowledge all have had sliders. I agree that the two other VTC badges that I have, have the flat loops, however I have never come across a Carnarvonshire with loops. I have had a Surrey with a slider which Stephen Bosley looked at and gave it the ok.
Surely the individual units could have dictated their preference for slider or lugs.
It will be useful to see the outcome of the Fattorini thead in the makers mark section which may shed some additional light on this.
41st

[Sonofacqms]

There seems to be two main manufacturers of VTC badges who named their products, J R Gaunt who put plaques on the backs of badges and Thomas Fattorini, Bolton who stamped sliders and put plaques on some badges.
The Essex VTC badge I have been told on good authority bearing the name "Meggy Creasy and Thompson" was not a manufacturers name but the name I think of a Newspaper Publisher, quite how this was I don't know, possibly they paid for the badges to be made.

Having looked at my Carnarvonshire VTC, it has loops and a voided crown, possibly there were two other manufacturers of this badge, neither Gaunt or Fattorini as they surely would have put their name to this.
I have a Surrey VTC of the general pattern which has probably had the slider cut off as it is mounted in a frame with a photograph of the shooting team.

Having said before of my suspicions on named other ranks badges being restrikes, this probably does not apply to VTC items as much, for some reason they were often named. The General pattern bearing the date 1915 seems to have been made in the main by JR Gaunt, they also made VTC buttons.

[41st]

Sonofacqms,
Any chance of posting your voided Carnarvonshire as I have never seen one?
41st

[Sonofacqms]

I am afraid at present I am unable to post any pictures of badges as my scanner does not work, when I am able to post pictures, I will do so.

[tynesideirish]

Here's an original Newcastle Upon Tyne VTC capbadge from my spare's collection.
Hopefully also a Photo of the Lord Mayor wearing one.

[Sonofacqms]

A most interesting photograph, it seems the mayor is wearing collar badges which look to be the same as the cap badge, this could explain the reason why some VTC "cap badges" have loops, blades and sliders.

[Phillip Herring]

Here is a picture of my great grandfather, George Frederick Jones (1874-1937) in his uniform of the Leamington Volunteer Defence Corps during the First World War.
He served in the Warwickshire Yeomanry in the early 1900's, but was over age and had inadequate eyesight for active service in 1914.
I have attached details of his cap badge and shoulder title (LVDC). Unfortunately, these won't enlarge.

Phil

[ASR142]

ROCESTER V T C BADGE
I beleave this to be ok !!

[Phillip Herring]

A couple of more additions to the Leamington Volunteer Defence Corps.
The capbadge - recently purchased and the only one that I have ever seen.
...and THE Leamington Volunteer Defence Corps!

Phil

[TWGB]

This is an old thread, but as a new(ish) member there's some stuff of interest to me, and an open question...

Personally, I like Malc's slidered Middlesex VTC. I've collected VTC badges for quite some time, and have a number of slidered Fattorini badges, nearly all maker-marked on the slider. I also have some Fattorini badges with the usual flat loops, including Middlesex.

One of my slidered Fattorini badges is Whitley & Monkseaton VTC, a flat looped version of which has just appeared on Geoff NEwman's site. I have no doubts about the 'genuineness' of either, as they are pretty rare (unlike the Middlesex, which have been copied to death!).

So both slidered and looped can co-exist. If someone can tell me why, I'd be a much wiser man!

Thanks in anticipation;

Tim.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Deejayuu

Originals?

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...3&d=1237846404
I note that this Middlesex VTC badge does not have the crown flaw on the top right side of the crown. VTC are not my thing but there have been half a dozen of the badges with the flaw for sale on various sites including well known auction houses in the last month. I believe that someone is making very high quality repros of these with both the flat lugs and maker marked sliders. It is just impossible for this volume of these badges to come on to the market at once and all be genuine.