Are You A True Collector...?

[Roy]

I realize that perhaps the title of this thread may be somewhat provocative but bear with me and I will explain my reasoning behind the title and hopefully opening up what I think has the potential for an interesting topic of discussion.

Recently I was asked to facilitate a trade between two gentlemen. Nothing to do with badges but the experience is still relevant. Ultimately the deal failed, not because either collector did not want what the other was offering but more so that both parties were of the opinion that 'their' item was actually much more valuable than I felt was reasonable or the market dictated.

This experience got me thinking and especially back to my own experiences in collecting, especially in my youth. I recall 'many' times that in collecting it was the items that got my focus and the monetary value was secondary. If I could afford it, I grabbed it, if I could not, then the money was just an annoying impediment. For me it was the item itself that held all the fascinations, focus and interest, money was simply either an obstacle (if I didn't have it) or something to 'grease the wheels' of a deal. As a result I often ended up paying over the odds for that special piece and almost never 'made money' from it down the road but to me it was 'collecting' that was important and even if I paid a little too much, the joy of 'collecting' it soon had me forget about how much it cost.

Today I seem many collectors using the most annoying phrases like "it owes me" or "I need to get my 'investment' back". If you use such phrases are you really a collectors? Or are you a dealer, an investor or just shrewd?

I write this not to judge anyone but simply to raise the topic for discussion. Are you a true collector? Is it the item itself that brings you joy or is it the prestige of owning it or the money you have wrapped up in it?

I know there are many dealers who are also collectors and I don't want to muddy the waters with that concept here but mearly to insight some of us to think a little about our motivations and share your own thoughts and experiences on this topic.

Cheers,

Roy

[Rob Miller]

Hi Roy

I keep buying virtually the same badge and the same button over and over again.

Does that make me a true collector, or is it some sort of mania?

Rob

[Roy]

That's easy Rob,

You're totally barking mate....

Cheers,

Roy

[Luke H]

Interesting points Roy.

I guess the value is what the individual is prepared to pay - whether that’s over or under the accepted odds.

We’ve all gone a little farther than perhaps we should on something we really like, but it’s something I try not to make a habit and wouldn’t recommend - always feels quite vice-like. After all if Tesco, Sainsbury’s and Morrison’s sell tins of baked beans at 60p, regularly buying them for £1.50 isn’t savvy.. Perhaps not my finest analogy granted as resale value of baked beans probably isn’t established but hopefully makes the point.

Because there is a ‘dealer list price’ or at least a ‘going rate’ badges fall into capitalism and become tantamount to currency. I agree it’s the history behind the badge that should be the real value and fascination but sadly the world in which we live means that at least one eye will be on £ signs.

I agree it’s often the ‘investment hunters’ who seem to have an inflated opinion on what everything is worth and push up the prices for us mere mortals.

But even without money and putting a figure on a badge there’s still the rarity scale which itself acts as a value. Only a fool would swap an ORs GvR RE badge (no matter if it was the nicest one in the world) for say a Kitcheners Fighting Scouts slouch hat badge. One there’s tens of thousands of and the other perhaps a few hundred (if that) left, that in effect is a value even if not putting a monetary number on it. I’m sure even if both parties were happy with such a trade there would be a lot of collectors felling the chap with the RE badge had ‘done over’ the owner of the KFS, perhaps to the point of criminality!

So long as what’s being asked is reasonable and it doesn’t fall into the GREED category (like the 1916 eco Leinster that’s been floating around eBay for the last month at £150) then I think it’s natural there will be higher and lower values depending on the item and it’s condition etc.

Re the two gentlemen and their trade as Shakespeare wrote ‘who will not change a raven for a dove’, if each party felt they’re getting a raven but losing a dove that’s their opinion - they can’t really have wanted the badge on offer as much as their current badge.

Cheers,

Luke

[Lancer 17]

G'day Roy

Great discussion points.

I believe that Im a collector and I do so in many areas that are not military. I have a friend of some 50 years standing in the scout badge collecting area who Always has to come out on top in a trade and I have and I know that others have just walked away from him as a trade just cant be made.

It depends if the item being sought fits into a special field, ie in my case 17th Lancers, I will pay more for an item that I really want as against lets say an Hussar item (sorry Hussar collectors, just an example !) that whilst I would like it, Im not prepared to pay what I consider to be too much. One has to be selective as money doesn't grow on trees as they say.

As I don't sell badges etc, there is no investor aspect to my collecting.

Hope that this helps and lets see where the discussion goes.

And a pat or 2 for Lilly.

Regards

Phil.

[Frank Kelley]

I would certainly swap you an ORs GvR RE badge for a Kitchener's Fighting Scouts slouch hat badge, how many RE badges do you need and how many KFS badges can you let go?

Originally Posted by Luke H

But even without money and putting a figure on a badge there’s still the rarity scale which itself acts as a value. Only a fool would swap an ORs GvR RE badge (no matter if it was the nicest one in the world) for say a Kitcheners Fighting Scouts slouch hat badge. One there’s tens of thousands of and the other perhaps a few hundred (if that) left, that in effect is a value even if not putting a monetary number on it. I’m sure even if both parties were happy with such a trade there would be a lot of collectors felling the chap with the RE badge had ‘done over’ the owner of the KFS, perhaps to the point of criminality!

Cheers,

Luke

[fairlie63]

I'm with Phil (Lancer17), I collect for the sheer enjoyment of it, and most of all I enjoy the research aspect. Sometimes that's the whole interest.

I don't sell badges, rarely buy them in fact unless its something I specifically want for the collection - and if I think it's too much I'll walk away, it's just not that important.

On the other hand there is a obsessive collector down here whose collection of Tasmanian insignia, pre and post Federation, is fantastic. But for him everything has a dollar value - unless he's buying it then he wants it for much less than he would sell it at. However, ask him when that particular badge was worn he'll just look blankly at you - he wouldn't have a clue unless somebody else told him, and he wouldn't sit down and research it. He's in it for the adulation, the oohs and aahs when people see his collection. He'll hoover up anything he sees for resale, and a bag of badges sitting on his desk is not insignia, it's a "...$3000 bag of badges over there...".

I couldn't collect like that, can't see the point.

Keith