ID On Scottish Crown Badge Please

[Smudger 53]

Can anyone ID this Badge Please? I have exhausted all research avenues now.
It has a Gilt Fleur de lys inside a Sterling silver Wreath and What I believe is a Scottish Crown?
The Fleur de Lys is mounted on a woven Cloth/Fabric backing.(Faded)
x2 Lugs
Fairly big as seen in comparison to the £1 Coin.
Apologies if not Military.

[MAP32]

I think that this is a Forage Cap and or Glengarry badge to the 5th VB Manchester Regt (Ardwick).

[Smudger 53]

Many thanks.
Do you think that is a variant QVC or a Scottish Crown please??

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by MAP32

I think that this is a Forage Cap and or Glengarry badge to the 5th VB Manchester Regt (Ardwick).

What evidence do you have that the wearer in Buxton is part of the 5th VB Manchester Regiment?

I have never seen such a badge worn by them but am willing to learn.

regards

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by Smudger 53

Many thanks.
Do you think that is a variant QVC or a Scottish Crown please??

In my opinion the Crown is a QVC. Nothing to do with Scotland.

Dave.

[Smudger 53]

Thank you Dave.
having had a closer scrutiny of both Scottish & QV Crowns images I think you are correct with it being QV.

I've got a terrible feeling Im not going to solve the origins of this badge.
But many thanks to all for your comments.
It is a lovely badge all the same.

[manchesters]

I can say its NOT Manchester Regiment related.

Try researching Wakefield RVC of the 1880's as I think their city emblem was a fleur de lys.

regards

[Smudger 53]

Many thanks Simon.
At least I have a clue where to start now.
Much appreciated

[Smudger 53]

Just found this thanks to Info from Simon.
Very similiar in construction, Silver wreath and has the cloth backing.
Write up on this one states Volunteer Rifles
Just got to find out which city/regiment my one came from.

[MAP32]

Originally Posted by manchesters

What evidence do you have that the wearer in Buxton is part of the 5th VB Manchester Regiment?

I have never seen such a badge worn by them but am willing to learn.

regards

I asked a friend who suggested the attribution and I saw this at Bosleys.

[manchesters]

I think we need to clear up a few facts here.

1. The 5th (Ardwick)VB Manchester Regiment never in their history, from being Rifle Volunteers in 1859 through their VB period and whilst the Territorial 8th Bn wore any form of badge featuring a Fleur de Lys.

2. The Fleur de Lys was a battle honour of their parent regiment the 63rd Foot that became the 1st Bn. Manchester Regiment and featured on many of their badges throughout their history. The fleur de lys was distinctive in that it was floriated.

3. In 1898 the 4th VB Manchester Regiment also adopted the floriated fleur de lys as a cap badge.

4. In 1914 the 11th (S) Bn. The Manchester Regiment officers wore a floriated fleur de lys also, albeit above a title scroll.

5. In 1923 the Manchester Regiment adopted an un floriated fleur de lys as its cap badge.

The original badge and CDV that started this thread is probably around 1880's and almost certainly in the RVC period before they were VB's of line Regiments. The Fleur de Lys on the cap is not of a pattern ever worn by the Manchester Regiment Battalions in that period.

The Helmet Plate at Bosleys, and I have an identical one, has no connection to the 5th VB Manchester Regiment, for the reasons given above. Its ID is uncertain but if I was to hazard a guess I would say probably some kind of prototype version produced in 1878 and not adopted. Also comes in all WM.

Please let your friend know.

regards

[Smudger 53]

Many thanks for the interest and information given by all.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Smudger 53

Just found this thanks to Info from Simon.
Very similiar in construction, Silver wreath and has the cloth backing.
Write up on this one states Volunteer Rifles
Just got to find out which city/regiment my one came from.

The one you show here says clearly BERKSHIRE RIFLES.
The precedence number of the county of Berkshire within the Volunteer Rifle Corps was 19.
Some VRCs used not their own number (within the county) on their badges, but the county number. Thus, taking my further lack of knowledge into account, this could be from any of the 12 Berkshire RVCs that existed, or maybe used by all of them, being all part of the 1st Administrative Battalion of Berkshire Rifle Volunteers.

[Smudger 53]

Hi Henk
I was showing the Berkshire Rifles as an example of a similar construction to my one at the top that I found online, and not a part of my original question.
But the link you added is very comprehensive. Many thanks