Odd Factory Mark On Anodised Aluminium Badge

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

Sent to me by a member.

Buffs badge by Smith & Wright with 'R' to reverse wreath.

Mine has same.

I have an idea what it may have been used for but would like other opinions.

Regards

Chris

Your Buffs badge is a genuine one and Smith and Wright are, of course, a well documented manufacturer. I suspect the capital 'R' to the reverse is a batch code purely for the manufacturer's reference and for quality control purposes. Some badges have numbers for the same purpose and the more proficient manufacturers tended to apply greater quality control than, say British Badge and Button Co., who were responsible for issuing a lot of mis-struck badges, reflecting a lower standard of quality control. Just mu opinion, of course. Regards. David

[Mike H]

I was told that the "R" mark meant reproduction,that these badges were produced in the late 1990`s.It was only done on a batch of Buffs badges.

I wasn't aware that any Smith and Wright badges or buttons were re-struck. If anyone knows to the contrary I would be pleased to hear as it affects some research I am carrying out at the moment on Birmingham badge and button makers. Regards. David

[bess55]

Originally Posted by Mike H

I was told that the "R" mark meant reproduction,that these badges were produced in the late 1990`s.It was only done on a batch of Buffs badges.

I've been racking my brain and this rings a bell with me too regarding the stamped 'R' under the slider on this particular badge. Sorry Chris, probably not what you want to hear!

Bess

[hagwalther]

Thanks Guys,

'R' for Reproduction or Replacement as in 'Replacement Die' perhaps?

Was the purpose of issue a commemorative piece for a reunion?

It is a very modern item and very different to my early Smith & Wright examples but it does though show all the signs of manufacture of an original anodised aluminium cap badge.

Keep thinking on this one if you can...

Regards

Chris

A replacement die would not constitute a 'replacement' (?) or restrike badge. Manufacturers often replaced dies as they wore-out or were damaged in the presses and I would see little point in marking a die simply because it replaced a previous one. Of course, there is the possibility that the entire badge is a restrike, done by someone with access to a good, sharp die and a Smith and Wright slider punch - stamping a big 'R' to show it was a restrike - but I doubt that. Has anyone else on the Forum got an anodised aluminium badge with a mark to the reverse ? Surely this can't bed the only one in existence. Regards. David

[Harry Man of Kent]

Not sure if this helps too much, but I live in East Kent where the buffs are the local regiment and thus my father collected extensively to this regt (as well as lots of other ares!!). I was collecting A/A. The Buffs was one of the harder AA badges to get and my smith & wright one took ages to find and has only half a slider - certainly no R on the back. I will check the ones in my fathers collection, which is now mine, when I get a chance. Anyway, at some point in the 80's a batch of about 50 mint Buff badges came out of the regimental stores - a dealer I know got them and was selling them for about £25 each, which drastically reduced the rarity of this badge. But I never looked on the back of them!! The dealer has always been very straight and never passed off repoductions without stating what they were. I also think if there were any repro's made for an anniversary/event etc we would have heard about it, as we knew the local scene very well. As I said not sure it helps too much.

[Alan O]

This is the back of my HW Timings one. It is die struck.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

This is the back of my HW Timings one. It is die struck.

Hi Alan,

Typical early Timings piece - very nice indeed.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Harry Man of Kent

Not sure if this helps too much, but I live in East Kent where the buffs are the local regiment and thus my father collected extensively to this regt (as well as lots of other ares!!). I was collecting A/A. The Buffs was one of the harder AA badges to get and my smith & wright one took ages to find and has only half a slider - certainly no R on the back. I will check the ones in my fathers collection, which is now mine, when I get a chance. Anyway, at some point in the 80's a batch of about 50 mint Buff badges came out of the regimental stores - a dealer I know got them and was selling them for about £25 each, which drastically reduced the rarity of this badge. But I never looked on the back of them!! The dealer has always been very straight and never passed off repoductions without stating what they were. I also think if there were any repro's made for an anniversary/event etc we would have heard about it, as we knew the local scene very well. As I said not sure it helps too much.

Hi Harry,

few points from our PM messages which are probably relevant here for others.

The 'R' Buffs is the only mark known and is on a later Smith & Wright slider. Taking on board what you have said:

The slider the badge is on is a more modern S&W item which is more akin to the William Dowler & Son (who took over S&W in 1961 later to be taken over by Firmin). Now, the Buffs were amalgamated in 1961 so I do find it hard to believe that it was an official issue item based on the regiments dates and type of slider. Of course, I may well be wrong.

Can you remember exactly what year you received the badge - I have it in the book as 1980's.

Note that during the 1980's quite a few very high profile dealers (one who was also a very prominent author on the subject of badge collecting) have been traced back to getting 'unofficial commissions' made by certain badge makers - Gaunt was the prime maker of these repros but there may well have been others.

This is not to take anything away from your dealer friend but I'm not sure that the military ever sold off stock directly to the public. If he got the stock from the maker then yes, that would seem more appropriate as the makers often kept a stock of badge of all units they catered for as an emergency reserve for good will purposes. When the unit no longer existed then the stock would obliviously be surplus to requirements.

Regards

Chris

[chris cunniffe]

I have the same markings on the one i have chris