Manchester Pals

[wardog]

I would very much appreciate images of known copies- or descriptions of known 'tells' If anyone would rather PM me that's fine. Obviously needing to make a decision on this badge. If it happens to match a dodgy version, I need to know. On the other hand it could well be as mentioned in post 15. Regards, Paul.

[wardog]

Are 'Lost Wax' badges smaller than originals? Can I conform dimensions on badges held by members please? Thanks, Paul.

[Alan O]

9g in weight

48mm wide from edge of tial to edge of tail and 46 mm high from centre of globe to base.

[wardog]

Thanks Alan- badge weight near the same as Simon's, width is fine but I'm short 2 or 3 mm with that height- anyone else able to check on their badge measurements for me? Cheers, Paul.

[Peter Marshall]

Both mine 43mm from TOP of globe to bottom of scroll

cheers

[wardog]

Thank you very much Peter, that fine then. I think I am now reaching an opinion on this badge and thanks to all who have posted. I would though hope if any info. on copies/fakes of the Manchester Pals badge should be available that it could be posted here - as yet I know nothing about the copies that have been mentioned.
I should also be very interested if examples should start to appear with similar faults to my badge- when it looks like up to now this fault has not been seen.
Regards, Paul.

[2747andy]

Paul,
I've yet to see a repro, copy or fake of this badge, which is constructed in a pretty unique manner!

Andy

[Alan O]

Could it be that some one has had a go at reblacking the badge and the bubbles are in the blacking and not part of the metal?

[wardog]

I can just catch a couple - I think there are seven, with my fingernail- and they are vey solid- they "look" like small white metal rivets-though I guess they could be very pale GM. Regards, Paul.

[KLR]

Just out of interest, where does the number of 8,000 badges come from ?

Is this a recorded production figure or just a guess based in the number of men ?
Did the Manchester Pals have eight battalions !?

I'm very interested in actual production numbers. The only figures I have to hand comes from a WO order of April 1916 which includes 20,000 Manchester Regt cap badges - but these are bi-metal regular badges !
The next time I'm in town, I'll look up the manufacturers archives that I know about - but can't guarantee anything.

(By the way, I had one of these about 40 years ago thinking it was a 1916 badge, but I sold all my other Lancashire badges to concentrate on KLR ones. I remember it was 'dark' and there was a break in the lion's tail.)

[Luke H]

Interesting thread and debate which I missed first time round during my lost-weekend away from the hobby.

Great photo Frank shows in post #11 highlighting the various tones of the badges worn.

I’m in no doubt the vast majority of these in brass have indeed been polished down from bronzed > brass by the original wearers or subsequent owners. However, I’d like to throw this badge which I was thoroughly delighted to acquire recently, into the mix and debate.

It actually has what I regard as a ‘factory finish’ to it. Not the easiest to make out with my poor iPhone skills but it’s there and in daylight you can see where it’s worn around the edges and high points to the slightly duller yellow brass underneath.

I’m 100% convinced this finish is period, that it was never bronzed and the near mint appearance is not due to later polishing or chemical cleaning etc.

[manchesters]

Luke,

It certainly looks like it has never been bronzed and does indeed look like factory finish, and thats probably the explanation. Taken from the factory, before it was finished as a souvenir, which happened as we know.

regards

[High Wood]

Here is my very clean example that came with a 24th Btn shoulder title from a house clearance via a local auction.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=146702

[silverwash]

not a brilliant image, under glass.

[manchesters]

The last two badges are both excellent original examples.

regards