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  #1  
Old 12-01-20, 05:15 PM
hkbuttonman hkbuttonman is offline
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Default 2nd Volunteer Battalion Norfolk Regiment 1899

Just found a magnificent old card backed photo of 10 members of the what I think is 4 Section, R or B Company of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion Norfolk Regiment after winning the (X)orse Callenge Cup in 1899. Ten officers, Lieut, Sgt, Privates, Bugler etc posing in full dress uniform on a leopard skin with the trophy. All badges, shoulder titles, medals, buckles etc clearly visible. Photo is 11.5 x 9.5 inches. Has names and ranks of the officers but some are hard to read. If anyone is interested in this please PM me.
HKButtonman
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  #2  
Old 12-01-20, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hkbuttonman View Post
Just found a magnificent old card backed photo of 10 members of the what I think is 4 Section, R or B Company of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion Norfolk Regiment after winning the (X)orse Callenge Cup in 1899. Ten officers, Lieut, Sgt, Privates, Bugler etc posing in full dress uniform on a leopard skin with the trophy. All badges, shoulder titles, medals, buckles etc clearly visible. Photo is 11.5 x 9.5 inches. Has names and ranks of the officers but some are hard to read. If anyone is interested in this please PM me.
HKButtonman
An acquaintance on the Great War Forum will be interested Iím sure, so Iíve posted this message via a link so that he can see it and get in contact.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-20, 07:28 PM
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Of course I would
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  #4  
Old 17-01-20, 01:12 PM
hkbuttonman hkbuttonman is offline
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Default 2nd Volunteer Battalion Norfolk Regiment 1899

My apologies for not posting the photo on the site earlier.
Here it is.
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File Type: jpg 2VB Norfolk.jpg (57.2 KB, 102 views)
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  #5  
Old 17-01-20, 01:15 PM
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Great Picture HK, thanks for sharing that - Regards Mark
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  #6  
Old 18-01-20, 07:32 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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This is a nice photo. Thank you.

Does anybody have suggestions on how to make the capitals, possibly currently in faded red, any the clearer?

Meanwhile here are two probable and two possible members of the cast:
Col Sjt E Soons, 370, 2 VB, VLSM Oct 1898
Sjt (Cpl in image) J Tuthill, 1222, VLSM July 1907
Pte TR Garrod, K Coy, 2 VB and 2 Vol Service Coy, South Africa, 1900
Pte J Whale, K Coy, 2 VB and 2 Vol Service Coy, South Africa, 1900

My notes do not mention K Coy, 2VB. I have only:
A, B, C, D Gt Yarmouth (late 2 Norfolk Corps);
E Gorleston (newly formed in 1876 under Captain PP Mathews);
F Bungay (late 4 Suffolk);
G Beccles (late 14 Suffolk);
H Lowestoft (late 17 Suffolk);
I Lowestoft (late 17 Suffolk);
J unknown location, (joined 1885).
Might K Coy have been a newly formed overspill unit from Yarmouth rather than a Suffolk unit brought into 2VB’s administrative fold?

The attached image shows another 2VB group from 1899, with possibly the same officer. This image is not mine and I failed to note its source. I suspect I found it on a Yarmouth Facebooks site. Either way, if you recognize it, please let me know so I can make amends to its owner. The legend mentions “Salter”. Two Salters Pte E, 57, and Pte A, 217, were both contemporary members of 2VB.

Corrections and additions welcomed.

Rob.

Last edited by rob carman; 18-01-20 at 07:33 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #7  
Old 18-01-20, 07:35 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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Forgot the attached photo. Sorry.
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  #8  
Old 18-01-20, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkbuttonman View Post
My apologies for not posting the photo on the site earlier.
Here it is.
It's a nice picture and the chap in a Drummers tunic very typically wears a buglers badge as a nod towards the unit's Volunteer Rifle Corps heritage, regardless that it is now a scarlet clad unit. This was quite typical and another idiosyncrasy of VBs.
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Last edited by Toby Purcell; 18-01-20 at 08:28 PM.
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  #9  
Old 19-01-20, 05:04 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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That is interesting about the bugler badge worn by drummers. Thank you.

I have five beginner-caliber questions:

1. The rank given for this chap is "Bugler". Was he ever "Drummer"?

2. In a 1900 photo of Norfolk Volunteers bound for South Africa, the "Buglers" are all "Privates". Were/are Private and Bugler fully interchangeable titles?

3. In that same 1900 picture, men with a red cross badge are called Private and are listed as in the "bearer section". Did these men have a trade title such as "Bearer"?

4. I see that the Sjt and L/Cpl chevrons are on the right arm only. Was that unique to Volunteers or the rule throughout the army?

5. I have photo of WW1 Norfolk Territorials with chevrons on both arms. When did it change?

Rob.

Last edited by rob carman; 19-01-20 at 05:08 PM. Reason: naff typing
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  #10  
Old 20-01-20, 12:11 AM
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1. The rank given for this chap is "Bugler". Was he ever "Drummer"
Depends on Establishment of unit .......probably the appointment was drummer, the only uniform difference was the badge, bugle versus drum.

2. In a 1900 photo of Norfolk Volunteers bound for South Africa, the "Buglers" are all "Privates". Were/are Private and Bugler fully interchangeable titles?
Technically "bugler" or "drummer" was an appointment for a private, and carried a small pay rise and higher status.

3. In that same 1900 picture, men with a red cross badge are called Private and are listed as in the "bearer section". Did these men have a trade title such as "Bearer"?
No, not officially.

4. I see that the Sjt and L/Cpl chevrons are on the right arm only. Was that unique to Volunteers or the rule throughout the army?
Throughout. On the full dress tunic and the scarlet frock, right arm only, driven partly by cost.

5. I have photo of WW1 Norfolk Territorials with chevrons on both arms. When did it change?
Essentially when Service Dress was introduced in 1902. The right arm only rule remained for as long as full dress was/is an alternative [eg Foot Guards]
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  #11  
Old 20-01-20, 01:12 PM
rob carman rob carman is offline
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Thanks. I have learnt a lot from this thread. Rob.
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  #12  
Old 22-01-20, 09:07 AM
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Thanks. I have learnt a lot from this thread. Rob.
Because of their rifles lineage it is quite likely that the appointment held in the VB was bugler. Just as in a similar way the sergeants wore the pouch belt that was also unique to those units with a rifles heritage. In a typical British compromise, the scarlet of British line, but the ‘appointments’ of rifles. It suited them to be different to the norm within the regiments that they were obliged to join, and went some small way to allay the principal objection to merger, that their identity would be completely subsumed.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 22-01-20 at 09:33 AM.
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  #13  
Old 23-01-20, 11:33 AM
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Interesting photos both 1899 but in one they are wearing a glengarry hat & badge and the other the fsc with a collar badge, presumably Brittania in whitemetal.
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  #14  
Old 23-01-20, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
Interesting photos both 1899 but in one they are wearing a glengarry hat & badge and the other the fsc with a collar badge, presumably Brittania in whitemetal.

Formerly on display at the old Norfolk Regiment Museum, Norwich:

DSCF3246.jpg

DSCF3247.jpg

Not a VB item, obviously, but I though it possibly worthy of inclusion.

Last edited by Jelly Terror; 23-01-20 at 10:54 PM.
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  #15  
Old 23-01-20, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jelly Terror View Post
Formerly on display at the old Norfolk Regiment Museum, Norwich:

Attachment 217546

Attachment 217547
Lovely, thanks for showing JT. Great to see you posting again mate, much missed your contributions.

Cheers,

Luke
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