The end of maker marked badges?

[magpie]

Yes julian, please put it back as you don't need political correction.

[2747andy]

I think a closer look at rule three may indicate otherwise;

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forum_rules.htm

There is enough contention on here already without turning it into a Political Soap Box! I'm not politics mad, however I was offended by some aspects of what was posted.

Andy

[Peter Brydon]

I sincerely hope that when KLR says " a sad end " he is not yet another member who is not going to contribute in future.

P.B.

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

While I agree with you from the collectors point of view the MoD look at things from the same perspective. It's usually , as it should be , from a cost perspective.

Yes, absolutely. Obviously, in theory at least, the MOD are obliged to choose the most economical/cost effective option - they are spending our £ after all! Unfortunately, I don't think that's always the best option as far as collectors are concerned; that's never a consideration of course, and rightly so.

David

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Yes, absolutely. Obviously the MOD are obliged to choose the most economical/cost effective option - they are spending our £ after all! Unfortunately, I don't think that's always the best option as far as collectors are concerned; that's never a consideration of course, and rightly so.

David

David's comments brought back to mind a conversation I had many years ago with the Chief Constable of Merseyside, the late Sir Kenneth Oxford. As a young Police Sergeant, and a keen collector of police badges, I had the temerity to approach him one day and ask if he might authorise the issue of a ceremonial helmet plate worn by the mounted police to add to my collection. He fixed me with a steely gaze and then gave me a lecture on police finances. He concluded by pointing out that badges are financed by the taxpayer and are intended to be worn on items of uniform and not to be collected and squirrelled away by individuals such as myself. Needless to say I did not get one! It was once said that Sir Ken was under the impression that "diplomacy" was a Waddington's board game!

Dave.

[Peter Brydon]

Dave,


Many years ago I was in contact with a Canadian collector who had a particular interest in the RUC. He also had two 5th ( Irish ) V.B. Kings Liverpool`s cap badges, a q.v.c. one and a kings crown one.

These were surplus to his collection and he was prepared to exchange them but the difficulty was that the only thing he wanted was sufficient RUC officers pips to make up a display showing the different rank insignia worn by the RUC.

As this was at the time of the "Troubles " I didn't think the RUC would be prepared to sell any item of insignia but I very much wanted the Liverpool Irish cap badges so it was worth a letter which I duly sent explaining the situation.

I got a quick reply back saying I could buy as many pips as I wanted, I cant remember the exact price but it was pence for each pip. So for very little money I ended up with two rare cap badges.

Peter

[altcar73]

Peter,

I always found the RUC very collector friendly even at the height of their sad and very serious difficulties. So, your experience does not surprise me. Their officers were often sent on mainland courses and I had the pleasure of their company there on several occasions. Without exception very nice and exceptionally generous people. In contrast I often found that small insignificant organisations whose staff had probably forgotten the last time they met an angry man, would often justify their refusal to co-operate by quoting "security issues". As an aside, that was a very good "Mersey Tunnel" result the other day!

Dave.

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Dave,

The Mersey Tunnel result was excellent especially for a initial outlay of £5.

Peter

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by altcar73

I am reliably informed that the MoD has written to all their contractors asking that in future they do not mark supplied items with the name of their company. This information came from an employee at Firmin & Sons PLC and is applicable to items of insignia etc., which is ordered and supplied directly to the MoD. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not. Presumably they will still be supplied in maker marked bags (where appropriate) but once taken out of the bag the maker will be unknown.

Dave.

Hi Guys,

This was made official, as far as I can tell, on the 22nd October 2012.

Regards,

Chris

[John Mulcahy]

Does anyone have references relating to the general absence of maker marks on early badges (nominally pre. 1950’s or so). Did the War Office specifically “forbid” it or was it just common practice?

How does one explain the use of marks on many officers, pre 1908 volunteer and some WW1 all GM badges but the almost near total absence on issued other ranks badges?

I have never come across anything on this matter in the research I have done and am keen to learn more about this aspect of badge supply.

John

[Alan O]

John

The officers badges and VB/TF badges were commercially sold to private organisation or individuals. In the same way as a tailor would put his label in his suit it was worth the extra cost by the maker to add his name to advertise his name and remind the buyer from whom he had bought it from to gain another sale in the future.

ORs badges were supplied to the WD direct so no advertising was required.

The WW1 badges with marked sliders are from small non-traditional makers who diversified into badges for the war effort and kept their old marketplace habits of naming their wares.

[John Mulcahy]

Thank you Alan, all that is clear.

What I specifically wanted to know is was the non marking of issued other ranks badges merely "habits and practices" on the part of the manufacturers or did the War Office explicitly direct or order the non marking of badges supplied to them under contract.

If yes does anyone have references to such an instruction.

John

[fougasse1940]

I believe initially the dies were WO property and thus unmarked badges, after the 2nd WW the procurement process was changed and the dies became the manufacturers property, hence the maker marks from then on.
Doe that ring a bell with anyone else?

Rgds, Thomas