Anodised Aluminium Cap Badge Oddities

[hagwalther]

Hi Guys,

I thought it migh be time to start advancing the anodised aluminium cap badge project slowly.

As such, see attached a list of badges and short descriptions which are all currently included with an entry (some being just a 'Wanted' entry) on the web pages.

I currently consider ALL those shown below to be either mistakes, unfinished or other sort of production error.

As such, would all take a look and tell me those in the list may well be GENUINE specification so that correction may be made and also why the badge is coloured the way it is e.g. general issue, pipers only badge, etc.

I'm not looking at genuine specification for ALL materials not just anodised aluminium.

e.g. If someone knows or owns a genuine issue non anodised badge of (for example) Royal Tank Regiment (All Gold) then please let me know together with the reason why it is that particular colour.

Post answers here or PM me.

Regards

Chris


1) 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards (All Gold)
2) Royal Hussars (All Gold)

4) 14th/20th Kings Hussars (All Silver)
5) 15th/19th The Kings Royal Hussars (All Gold)

6) Royal Tank Regiment (All Gold)

8) Cheshire Regiment (All Gold)
9) Duke Of Edinburgh's Royal Regiment (All Gold)
10) Royal Scots (All Gold)

11) Foresters Brigade (All Silver)
12) Yorkshire Brigade (Silver And Black)
13) Yorkshire Brigade (All Gold)
14) Irish Guards (All Silver)
15) Scots Guards (All Silver)

16) Welsh Guards (All Silver)

18) Army Catering Corp (We Sustain) (All Silver)
19) Army Catering Corp (We Sustain) (All Gold)
20) Royal Army Medical Corps (All Silver)



23) Women's Royal Army Corps (All Gold)
24) Royal Regiment Of Wales (All Gold)
25) Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (All Gold)

26) Parachute Regiment (All Gold)
27) Special Air Service (All Gold)
28) 7th Duke Of Edinburgh's Own Gurkha Rifles (Cypher Not Void - Silver And Gold)

30) MOD Guard Force - Silver

31) Royal Alderney Militia (All Gold)
32) Royal Alderney Militia (All Silver)
33) University Of London OTC (All Silver)
34) Tayforth Universities UOTC (All Silver)
35) Royal Army Medical Corp (Gold snake)

36) Wessex Regiment/Wessex Brigade (All Silver)

Please clarify something for me : If a RTR cap badge is white metal, how can it be 'all gold' ? Regards. David

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by David Douglas

Please clarify something for me : If a RTR cap badge is white metal, how can it be 'all gold' ? Regards. David

A poor example.

I'm looking for badges as described in post 1 that existed in materials other than anodised aluminium.

I have amended the sentence in post 1 to be less ambiguous.

Regards

Chris

[lettman]

Chris,
I may be seriously misreading your posting, but isn't your item
3) 14/20 Hussars (all gold)
simply the regulation badge worn until the black one was adopted for all ranks in c.1968?
The examples below are marked Firmin London (gilt) and J.R.GAUNT B'HAM (black).
My apologies if I'm being obtuse about this!

[Gurkha]

Chris,
Re the 7th GR non void cypher, it is believed that these were an early production AA item, They had problams with the voiding causing a weakness so much so that despite being approved in Sept 1959 the old pattern continued in use until 1964. The badges were also produced in WM & silver plate so they would be stronger. A sealed pattern for an AA badge is in the Nat Army museum dated June 1970. I have a Black AA one of these, that was issued to the 7th prior to going to the falklands. No makers mark, fitted with loops. I dont know if this was a private purchase by the regt or issue.

The 'Silver' Gurkha Eng badge.
The badge was silver when introduced in 1955 and later changed to a bi metal version. So it is correct for an early ordnance issue.

Steve

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Chris,
Re the 7th GR non void cypher, it is believed that these were an early production AA item, They had problams with the voiding causing a weakness so much so that despite being approved in Sept 1959 the old pattern continued in use until 1964. The badges were also produced in WM & silver plate so they would be stronger. A sealed pattern for an AA badge is in the Nat Army museum dated June 1970. I have a Black AA one of these, that was issued to the 7th prior to going to the falklands. No makers mark, fitted with loops. I dont know if this was a private purchase by the regt or issue.

The 'Silver' Gurkha Eng badge.
The badge was silver when introduced in 1955 and later changed to a bi metal version. So it is correct for an early ordnance issue.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Is the 7th GR non void - is the all silver version correct?

I have a silver AND gold version and I'm thinking they left the gold plating off the all silver item making it an imcomplete badge.

Can you re-check?

re: Silver Grkha Engineers - Thanks !!! - will remove this from the list later.

Many thanks and keep them coming.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Chris,
A sealed pattern for an AA badge is in the Nat Army museum dated June 1970. I have a Black AA one of these, that was issued to the 7th prior to going to the falklands. No makers mark, fitted with loops. I dont know if this was a private purchase by the regt or issue.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Any chance of a photo of the black badge for the Gurkha web page?

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by lettman

Chris,
I may be seriously misreading your posting, but isn't your item
3) 14/20 Hussars (all gold)
simply the regulation badge worn until the black one was adopted for all ranks in c.1968?
The examples below are marked Firmin London (gilt) and J.R.GAUNT B'HAM (black).
My apologies if I'm being obtuse about this!

Not at all.

Thanks for pointing this out as this is the sort of feedback I need.

OK - the all gold 14/20 Hussars is a correctly issued badge.

Will remove this from the list later.

Regards

Chris

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Guys,

I thought it migh be time to start advancing the anodised aluminium cap badge project slowly.

As such, see attached a list of badges and short descriptions which are all currently included with an entry (some being just a 'Wanted' entry) on the web pages.

I currently consider ALL those shown below to be either mistakes, unfinished or other sort of production error.

As such, would all take a look and tell me those in the list may well be GENUINE specification so that correction may be made and also why the badge is coloured the way it is e.g. general issue, pipers only badge, etc.

I'm not looking at genuine specification for ALL materials not just anodised aluminium.

e.g. If someone knows or owns a genuine issue non anodised badge of (for example) Royal Tank Regiment (All Gold) then please let me know together with the reason why it is that particular colour.

Post answers here or PM me.

Regards

Chris


1) 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards (All Gold)
2) Royal Hussars (All Gold)

4) 14th/20th Kings Hussars (All Silver)
5) 15th/19th The Kings Royal Hussars (All Gold)

6) Royal Tank Regiment (All Gold)

8) Cheshire Regiment (All Gold)
9) Duke Of Edinburgh's Royal Regiment (All Gold)
10) Royal Scots (All Gold)

11) Foresters Brigade (All Silver)
12) Yorkshire Brigade (Silver And Black)
13) Yorkshire Brigade (All Gold)
14) Irish Guards (All Silver)
15) Scots Guards (All Silver)

16) Welsh Guards (All Silver)

18) Army Catering Corp (We Sustain) (All Silver)
19) Army Catering Corp (We Sustain) (All Gold)
20) Royal Army Medical Corps (All Silver)



23) Women's Royal Army Corps (All Gold)
24) Royal Regiment Of Wales (All Gold)
25) Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (All Gold)

26) Parachute Regiment (All Gold)
27) Special Air Service (All Gold)
28) 7th Duke Of Edinburgh's Own Gurkha Rifles (Cypher Not Void - Silver And Gold)

30) MOD Guard Force - Silver

31) Royal Alderney Militia (All Gold)
32) Royal Alderney Militia (All Silver)
33) University Of London OTC (All Silver)
34) Tayforth Universities UOTC (All Silver)
35) Royal Army Medical Corp (Gold snake)

36) Wessex Regiment/Wessex Brigade (All Silver)

Another production error was a bi-metal badge for the Royal Welch Fusiliers with badly distorted flames issued in the early 1980s. The silver coloured circlet was correct but the gold coloured bomb (backing's) flames were totally the wrong shape. Little or no attempt was made to return these to the supplier and they were simply worn out until stocks were expended.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Another production error was a bi-metal badge for the Royal Welch Fusiliers with badly distorted flames issued in the early 1980s. The silver coloured circlet was correct but the gold coloured bomb (backing's) flames were totally the wrong shape. Little or no attempt was made to return these to the supplier and they were simply worn out until stocks were expended.

Thanks Toby,

Oh No. Another Classification - mistakes that were actually worn.

Will this never end....

OK Toby, I will keep this bit of infor as a footnote in the revelant chapter.

Regards

Chris

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Thanks Toby,

Oh No. Another Classification - mistakes that were actually worn.

Will this never end....

OK Toby, I will keep this bit of infor as a footnote in the revelant chapter.

Regards

Chris

Interestingly the same distorted backings but with a different silver circlet were used for at least 2 series of the TV production "Soldier Soldier", where they were used as the badge of the ficticious 'King's Fusiliers' and worn with a Blue and White Hackle. I have also seen the King's Fusiliers badge with an 'RRF' backing but am not sure if that was just used for publicity shots or an actual series.

[Toby Purcell]

Chris,

Are you aware that badges, stable belts and even colours were prepared for a new regiment to be formed by amalgamation of the Gloucestershire Regt and Hampshire Regt in the mid 70s (from memory). The new Regt was to be titled the Royal Regt of Gloucestershire and Hampshire (nicknamed by some 'wag' as the Hampsters!). The badge comprised the gilded star of the Hampshire officers with a Glosters Sphinx superimposed. I cannot remember the maker. Firmin or Gaunt I think. The amalgamation was cancelled by the new government formed by Edward Heath.

[jermil]

Hi all

The link shown in another post, was a link to my website. Images of the 'official' issued Alderney ACF badges can be found at

www.jerseymilitia.co.uk/cadetpics3.html

By official I mean that these badges were obtained directly from the ACF Commanding Officer on a visit to their HQ in Alderney.

As previously stated, the 'gold' anodised badge was ONLY worn on the beret, the Bi metal 'silver/gilt' badge was worn on the peaked cap by all ranks, the embroidered badge was worn by Officers on the beret only. Collar badges were either in silver anodised or white metal to match the headgear badges and the embroidered shoulder flash was only worn on Service Dress tunics.

Colonel Walter previously the CO of the ACF is not aware of any official issue of the silver anodised beret badge of the 'silver/gold' anodised ever being issued.

Apparently the unit no longer wears the Alderney badges as they are affiliated with a Mainland Regiment and now wear the insignia of that unit.



Norman

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Chris,

Are you aware that badges, stable belts and even colours were prepared for a new regiment to be formed by amalgamation of the Gloucestershire Regt and Hampshire Regt in the mid 70s (from memory). The new Regt was to be titled the Royal Regt of Gloucestershire and Hampshire (nicknamed by some 'wag' as the Hampsters!). The badge comprised the gilded star of the Hampshire officers with a Glosters Sphinx superimposed. I cannot remember the maker. Firmin or Gaunt I think. The amalgamation was cancelled by the new government formed by Edward Heath.

I had thoughts with regard to this "regiment" for some time.It concerns the back badge:-
If formed would they have worn the back badge ?
If so,what colour was it ?
What were the collar badges ?

With regard to the back badge,the RGBW and then the Rifles have continued to wear it.It was very jealously by the Gloucesters so i doubt they would have given it up without a serious fight.
Im wondering if the back badges found are gold anodised are RRGH rather than a error in production.
Can anybody throw any light on the subject?

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Interestingly the same distorted backings but with a different silver circlet were used for at least 2 series of the TV production "Soldier Soldier", where they were used as the badge of the ficticious 'King's Fusiliers' and worn with a Blue and White Hackle. I have also seen the King's Fusiliers badge with an 'RRF' backing but am not sure if that was just used for publicity shots or an actual series.

The RRF badge was used after the amalgamation,when they became the Kings Own Fusiliers