British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Reproductions, Restrikes, Fakes, Forgeries, and Copies

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27-03-20, 09:50 PM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,140
Question Rochester VTC

I know that many VTC badges have been reproduced, this Rochester VTC has had the loops replaced but it looks to me to be a nice deep strike and possibly an original.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Rob
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1020679.jpg (65.8 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg P1020680.jpg (58.2 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg P1020681.jpg (69.9 KB, 53 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28-03-20, 09:13 PM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,140
Cool Rochester VTC

103 views and no comments, surely someone has an idea?

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-03-20, 06:32 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,317
Default

I know nothing about these but if it has been re-lugged, I think I would be happy with it. The rear definition looks pretty good to me.
Cheers,
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-03-20, 09:11 AM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,140
Cool Rochester VTC

Thanks for the reply Alex, when I found this badge some while ago both loops had been broken/cut off, the strike looked good, far better than the fakes that are present at most militaria fairs and as it was cheap bought it.

Many VTC badges have been faked and this one is no exception.

Regards Rob
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29-03-20, 11:07 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,317
Default

Yes, also quite a bit of evidence of loss of definition on the front from polishing but perfect crisp definition on the rear.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29-03-20, 12:26 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,783
Default

These badges were worn for a very short time and even then not that often as the VTC was part time. Not sure how much polishing means that it has been over polished to give it authenticity.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-03-20, 12:48 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 1,903
Default

I don’t like it I’m afraid and don’t believe it’s original.

The front has a mottled surface like the die is corroded. Exactly the same as this made yesterday repro on eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROCHESTER...9158%7Ciid%3A1 The reverse looks a funny colour like it might’ve been chemically aged too.

I’ve checked K&K but the picture is so poor and has been retouched it’s not of any help. These are either very good fakes or restrikes. If the former I’ve never seen a genuine one, if the latter one with provenance is probably needed to confirm what a good badge looks like and the correct fixing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 471DD052-3634-4420-9E77-1030575E8113.jpg (61.4 KB, 21 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-03-20, 07:11 PM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,140
Default Rochester VTC

Well, thanks for the replies chaps, firstly the repro badge you have shown Luke has a slider as opposed to mine which has always had loops, the discolouration on the reverse was caused by heat from when I replaced the missing loops. I must give it a better clean.

I have a small collection of VTC badges which I am in the process of re-carding which is why I have put this badge up for discussion.

Many thanks Rob
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29-03-20, 08:20 PM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,140
Default Rochester VTC

I have spotted this one on ebay, it has a slider and looks different to the one posted by Luke.

See 133372854868

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29-03-20, 08:27 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 1,903
Default

Saw that one Rob. On an extruded slider and nice detail on the lion. The coronet’s lines appear better defined too. Definitely appears to be a better candidate for an original badge than most.

But whether it is or not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
Well, thanks for the replies chaps, firstly the repro badge you have shown Luke has a slider as opposed to mine which has always had loops
With these repro VTCs they’re often found in abundance with both slider and loop fixings - this one is in GM and has loops 153790642901.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30-03-20, 09:07 AM
TWGB's Avatar
TWGB TWGB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 167
Default Rochester VTC

Rob,

I'm not a fan, I'm afraid.

The one you found on eBay does look better, but I'm not really sure about it, either. That said, it is identical to the one I have had in my collection for twenty-something years, and that one was already well patinated when I got it.

What all these badges have in common is a small flaw on the dot between the 'R' and the 'V'. Older badges have just a tiny hair-like flaw, heading up from the dot. Newer badges have a much bigger flaw, which seems consistent with die wear as more badges are produced. The lessening of definition of the lion also fits this picture; there are a lot of RVTC badges out there!

If this holds true, the question is whether all the badges are fakes, or a few are original and the majority restrikes. Until someone can produce a well-provenance version, the jury has to remain out...

If someone on the forum has the Hugh King badge that appeared in K&K, that might help?

Best regards,

Tim
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30-03-20, 09:55 AM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,140
Smile Rochester VTC

Tim,

Many thanks for your very well explained reason as to why my badge is a copy, I put this badge up as I have said in an earlier post as I am in the process of re-carding my VTC badges.

As you say provenance is very difficult as the VTC ceased to exist over a hundred years ago and even the children of VTC members would now be receiving telegrams from her majesty shortly if they have not already had them, so the chances of talking to someone who has "Dads badge" is very unlikely.

K&K show a great many VTC badges, but not all as some were so obscure and short lived as to be almost a myth. I found a cap badge with the arms of Barking in Essex in bronze, this I mentioned to an Essex collector who said it was Barking VTC but all the records were destroyed in the blitz.

These badges are almost on a par with pre-territorial glengarry badges for authentication, this is why the fakers keep making them.

Regards Rob
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:28 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.