Leicestershire PAO Yeomanry, Patt 8895/1916-22 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

GriffMJ · #1 05-01-17, 05:41 AM

Hi All

This is the first photo I have ever seen of the "bronze" Other Ranks post 1915 cap badge

Photo by H R Gwyer-Gibbs Photographer to the Brigade of Guards, Pirbright....... and probably at the Army School of Musketry.

The Group includes a named soldier ...L/Cpl F Ward serving with the 2nd/1st Suffolk Hussars Yeomanry (standing second to far right).

So I think the Leicester Yeoman (NCO) is from the 2nd/1st Leicestershire PAO Yeomanry ..... confirming my thoughts that the bronze issue was given to the home defence regiment based on the east coast. Very few photos exist for the 2nd/1st LY. The bronze cap badge is "not" seen in the 1st/1st Leicestershire PAO Yeomanry, only the gilding metal version.

* The Bronze example shown has had some heat damage to it because of a modern repair to a broken top loop, hence the discolouring.

mooke07 · #2 05-01-17, 06:32 AM

Nice detective work Griff. Shall hve to look out for one of the bronzed badges myself. I note the medal ribbon to the Lincolnshire Regiment sgt and one other second left bottom row but cannot identify his darkened cap badge. Note Manchesters and Lancashire Fusiliers, cheers Dean

GriffMJ · #3 05-01-17, 06:40 AM

Dean

The "bronze" badge is rocking horse poo..... it really is. I have only seen two in the last 10 years..... missed both of them (I have the later Gm version). I know some people collect them as OSD...... but they are wrong. These were only ever worn in the Ranks, and only in the cap.

The Group includes L/Cpl F Ward serving with the 2/1st Suffolk Hussars Yeomanry. The other Sergeants are serving with the following regiments: 1x Monmouthshire Regiment; 1x 9th London Regiment ?; 1x Lincolnshire Regiment (SA Ribbon); 2x 12th London Regiment (Sgt = SA Ribbon); 1x Notts & Derby Regiment; 1x Manchester Regiment; 1x Lancashire Fusiliers and 1x Leicestershire PAOYeomanry.

mooke07 · #4 05-01-17, 08:20 AM

Well that has set me a challnge then thanks Griff. Nice ID on Sergeants,cheers Dean.

spreadeagle · #5 05-01-17, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Dean

The "bronze" badge is rocking horse poo..... it really is. I have only seen two in the last 10 years..... missed both of them (I have the later Gm version). I know some people collect them as OSD...... but they are wrong. These were only ever worn in the Ranks, and only in the cap.

The Group includes L/Cpl F Ward serving with the 2/1st Suffolk Hussars Yeomanry. The other Sergeants are serving with the following regiments: 1x Monmouthshire Regiment; 1x 9th London Regiment ?; 1x Lincolnshire Regiment (SA Ribbon); 2x 12th London Regiment (Sgt = SA Ribbon); 1x Notts & Derby Regiment; 1x Manchester Regiment; 1x Lancashire Fusiliers and 1x Leicestershire PAOYeomanry.

Griff,
I thought I had a OSD collar badge as a gap filler in my WW1 Leicestershire Yeomanry badge set,but if the above is correct,I may have 3 variants of the cap badge,and no collars.
Back to the drawing board then?
Cheers.
Al

GriffMJ · #6 05-01-17, 08:11 PM

Hi Al

You have a great little set there..... the slider version is a rare one ..there is a repro for it.... but yours looks good. The other looped is the same as the slider (maker: I think Firmin).

The looped Gilding metal (as the bronze i have shown) is the later post war issue... and that is more common. <<< Or is yours bronzed..... its hard to tell from the photos? The maker for this one is ..... I think.... Gaunt.

spreadeagle · #7 05-01-17, 08:17 PM

The cast badge is bronzed Griff,it's just that the light doesn't show it properly.
That's why I always had it marked down as an OSD collar.
Did the LY wear collars for this pattern badge 1916-22?

GriffMJ · #8 05-01-17, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreadeagle

The cast badge is bronzed Griff,it's just that the light doesn't show it properly.
That's why I always had it marked down as an OSD collar.
Did the LY wear collars for this pattern badge 1916-22?

Only the Officers wore Cap & Collars .... and their badge was the one below (made by Gaunt) from 1908 until 1928. Blades for cap and -D loops for collar. (Silver in Blues).

Your Bronzed was worn by the 2nd/1st LYPAO Other Ranks and your other two... worn by the 1st/1st Other Ranks until 1922 collectively.

In 1922 the other ranks were issued with the gilding metal below (Patt 3620/1922-28).... this is basically the officers dye shown above. This was worn until 1928.

spreadeagle · #9 05-01-17, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Only the Officers wore Cap & Collars .... and their badge was the one below (made by Gaunt) from 1908 until 1928. Blades for cap and -D loops for collar. (Silver in Blues).

Your Bronzed was worn by the 2nd/1st LYPAO and your other two... worn by the 1st/1st until 1922 collectively.

In 1922 the other ranks were issued with the gilding metal below (Patt 3620/1922-28).... this is basically the officers dye shown above. This was worn until 1928.

That's a nice looking Bronze badge,no mistaking that for a collar either.
Thanks for the info,it looks like I can give up looking for the 1916-22 era GM collars then.

GriffMJ · #10 05-01-17, 08:46 PM

BTW..... the "W" version was the first issue in 1916...... the Frezenberg survivors got these..... and they are real Hens Teeth!! I have had one in my collection but sent it back in my ignorance.... thinking it was a dud....... I am still kicking myself

Cpl Thirlby Hack MM, C Squadron, LYPAO (Frezenberg survivor), wounded: shot through the thigh and managed to carry his badly wounded mukka (Sgt) back to the AP 1/2 mile away at Bellaward Wood.

GriffMJ · #11 05-01-17, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreadeagle

That's a nice looking Bronze badge,no mistaking that for a collar either.
Thanks for the info,it looks like I can give up looking for the 1916-22 era GM collars then.

Technically no.... dont give up...... because they were made..... but not worn. Look for "-D" loops (unused collar)....... if the badge has --0 loops then its the looped cap badge just before the slider issue. I have a hunch that the collar was deemed too big and uncomfortable for use in the field shabby jackets. The unused collars would have been dished out for lost cap badges most likely...... or just held in stores.

GriffMJ · #12 06-01-17, 05:22 PM

Al's [Spreadeagle] 2nd/1st LYPAO ORs cap badge.... a very worn "bronzed" brass.

Full set of Cap Badges for the ORs of the 2nd/1st LYPAO

A :- Gilding metal x2 N/S looped; B :- Bronzed metal x2 N/S looped; C :- Gilt washed copper alloy, clasp pin sweetheart badge.

GriffMJ · #13 06-01-17, 08:06 PM

Full set of Cap Badges for the ORs of the 1st/1st LYPAO.

A:- "W Scroll" Gilding metal x2 loops N/S; B:- Gilding metal x2 loops N/S; C:- Gilding metal (Crimped Slider); D:- Gilding metal (Pin & Clasp) Sweetheart badge.

GriffMJ · #14 06-01-17, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreadeagle

it looks like I can give up looking for the 1916-22 era GM collars then.

Al

Here is an example of a mint condition collar badge (that were never used), note the position of the -D loops.

spreadeagle · #15 06-01-17, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Al

Here is an example of a mint condition collar badge (that were never used), note the position of the -D loops.

Thanks Griff,very useful and informative.
Definitely one to watch out for,but I doubt very much if i'll get a complete 16-22 set.
I see what you meant re-the W pattern badge,it is very distinctive,and one I've been unaware of until now.
No wonder some cav collectors steer clear of Yeomanry badges!!