19th County of London ( St Pancras )

[jfenzy1]

Hi,
I would welcome opinions on this badge please. I know there are plenty fakes about. Is this one good or bad ?

[Luke H]

A very nice F.E. Woodward made example, particularly pleasing that the left border of the South cross arm is intact. It likely dates from WW1.

[Alan O]

I have these 2. One is FN marked. The slider has been flattened and is not much longer than the other. Both are the 1900 date.

[tonyb]

For me that's not an unmarked Woodward slider, wrong shape, nice badge notwithstanding.
To elaborate on Alan's 1900 reference.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...highlight=19th
Tony.

[Luke H]

The badge in post #1 is a Woodward made badge.

See Peter J’s example below from this old thread.





Note the distinctive curved shape and raised position of the ‘19’ in 1900-02, the unusual laurel stem ends following and almost blending into the leaf, the diagonal ribbed band above the central badge of jewels, the non-continuous tops and bottoms to the X numerals.

I expect the shadow and camera aspect contribute to the slider on the badge in post #1 not appearing as tapered and stereotypically Woodward as it actually is.

[Alan O]

This one is on ebay now for £30.

In my opinion it is a 1970s' restrike, probably what are refered to as Morrison's, using an original die but with the flat and angular slider that is sometimes seen with the ENGLAND stamp.

This is not the one in Marsh's catalogue which is dated 1899 and has the die flaw in CountY 0f London when the Y is extended and the O is more of an oblong 0.

The number of badges on ebay does suggest a lot of restrikes and copies abound although the badge was worn 1908-35 so longer than some of the London Regts' Battalions.

[Alan O]

I have this badge that I think is likely to be a Marsh product. The sides are very regular unlike the originals which are more cut out. It has the same Y 0 dies flaw as if the original has been recut?

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

I have this badge that I think is likely to be a Marsh product. The sides are very regular unlike the originals which are more cut out. It has the same Y 0 dies flaw as if the original has been recut?

It’s not from the die pictured in Marsh which I’ve attached and also shown a practical example with a 15mm fake Gaunt mark.

There are too many differences for it to be a ‘hobbed’ fake die I feel: date, crown shape, how the numerals are layered, laurel stalk ends etc.

But I do certainly agree it is not a genuine die either. Interestingly most badges from that die appear in WM. To date I’ve never seen a WM 19th London I’d regard as genuine.

As so often there are fakes and copies beyond the wares of Marsh Militaria. Nicholas Morigi is rumoured to have commissioned a line of London Regt fakes, if true one of these could be his.

[Alan O]

The gaunt marked ones has the typical 19OO font rather than 1900 on the better quality ones.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Alan O

The gaunt marked ones has the typical 19OO font rather than 1900 on the better quality ones.

Interesting thread which got my looking at mine. All lettering is 0 and numericals O. That’s how it also appears on my Gaunt OSD too.

[irishhorse]

Have this version with lugs.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Interesting thread which got my looking at mine. All lettering is 0 and numericals O. That’s how it also appears on my Gaunt OSD too.

Keith

The Fake Gaunts not the genuine ones.

Alan

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by irishhorse

Have this version with lugs.

It is a Marsh catalogue fake. They are found in a variety of finishes with various fixings.

[Keith Blakeman]

The other OSD in my collection cane from the Gaunt/NAM archive and is presumably a Jennens example with an 1899 honour. The 0’s and O’s are reversed from the Gaunt badge with the exeption of the rounded O in South.

[Luke H]

I think there are so many makers variant dies for this badge over time and between other ranks and officers that it can be difficult to work out which provided the ‘inspiration’ for the fakers poor attempts to create a facsimile.