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  #16  
Old 20-07-21, 11:22 AM
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I did have to check that they were not wearing the WW2 era 13th/18th badge but I am 100% certain on the ebay one and 95% certain on the greatcoat picture that they are the Z-type badge.

These photos seem to date after the 9 September 1922 amalgamation which merged the 13th Hussars and the 18th Royal Hussars (Queen Mary’s Own) to 13th/18th Hussars. 'A' Sqn were the 18th Hussars Sqn.

It suggests that the regiment adopted the Z type badge for most if not all of the Sqns. There is the possibility that the 18th Hussars badge continued to be worn by A sqn but as yet i don't know either way.

At some point (1929?) the '5-bar gate badge' came into use.

Upon the formal retitling, and issue of the new 13th/18th badge, in December 1935, when it became known as the 13th/18th Royal Hussars (Queen Mary’s Own).

This was in turn replaced by the last design with a Q/C.

Last edited by Alan O; 24-07-21 at 05:28 PM.
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  #17  
Old 30-08-21, 03:17 PM
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I would have thought from the photographs that this particular example is a die cast officers badge that started life as a collar, the original rankers badges are very finely die struck from thin gilding metal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
This one arrived this morning, it is maker marked J.R Gaunt London to both the rear of the badge and the slider.
There seems to be a 'scar' at the bottom behind the slider, possibly where a lug was removed?
Previous threads confirm this 13th Z scroll badge was worn by Officers in Peaked and Side caps.
The 'factory' conversion to a slider would suggest this could have been also worn by ORs.
Any thoughts?
Tony.
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  #18  
Old 30-08-21, 05:08 PM
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Tony

I would agree that the cast brass badge is from the same die that Gaunt used for the officers caps and collars. The assumption is that they were regimentally sourced hence the makers' name being on them.

However I cannot agree that the original ORs ones were the thin die struck ones that you see in the Marsh catalogue and available on ebay in huge numbers.

Alan
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  #19  
Old 30-08-21, 05:13 PM
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I would agree with Alan. Yet to seen a die stamped Z badge I would regards as original. As Alan rightly points out the Marsh fake is die stamped.
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  #20  
Old 31-08-21, 08:22 AM
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So reading between the lines, it appears to be suggested in this thread that the rank and file all wore officers die cast cap badges and collars, if that was the case, why are they so scarce and where exactly does that information come from?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Tony

I would agree that the cast brass badge is from the same die that Gaunt used for the officers caps and collars. The assumption is that they were regimentally sourced hence the makers' name being on them.

However I cannot agree that the original ORs ones were the thin die struck ones that you see in the Marsh catalogue and available on ebay in huge numbers.

Alan
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I would agree with Alan. Yet to seen a die stamped Z badge I would regards as original. As Alan rightly points out the Marsh fake is die stamped.
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  #21  
Old 31-08-21, 09:28 AM
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There are 2 photos on the forum dating from after 1922 showing the Z type cap badge in use by the newly amalgamated regiment. They are so scare because the practice only lasted a few years before the '5-bar gate' QMO badge came into use. Cavalry regiments were relatively small and it's possible that A Sqn continued to wear the old 18th Hussars badge which would reduce the numbers of badges worn. The die cast ones are as relatively scarce as the QMO successor badges.

I should point out that they are not the officers badges as they were bronzed and the ORs badges made by Gaunt are fitted with vertical shanks rather than the blades seen on Officers' cap badges.

Alan

Last edited by Alan O; 31-08-21 at 09:57 AM.
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  #22  
Old 31-08-21, 12:14 PM
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Okay, so reading this, all original badges worn by all ranks of the regiment were actually die cast and only ever manufactured by Gaunt?
If so I would still like to know where that information came from and why Hugh King got it so wrong?

Last edited by Alan O; 22-10-21 at 02:57 PM.
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  #23  
Old 31-08-21, 12:22 PM
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No I am not saying that: but think it is likely as the only ones I have seen that I would consider genuine are both cast and Gaunt made.

I can say that every die struck one I have seen is from the same stable as Martin Marsh. If you have one then I am sorry but it's likely to be a fake.
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  #24  
Old 31-08-21, 02:34 PM
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Hi Alan
Please have a look at this die-stamped example. It's not from the Marsh stable as far as I can ascertain.

Going by the Marsh image supplied by Luke (see attached), I think the crown shape is different to Marsh's, also a different fleur-de-lys shape and jewels and a difference in the etched lines on the 13 and scroll. It has gold braise and a very short slider.

The reverse exhibits the flat edge on the periphery of the stamping that I sometimes associate with those made by Firmin, but that is just conjecture on my part.

If you agree that it is not from the Marsh stable and if only a die-cast construction is correct, do we have another possible faker?
Mark
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Last edited by dubaiguy; 31-08-21 at 02:47 PM.
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  #25  
Old 31-08-21, 02:56 PM
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Mark

I have not seen one from that die before. There are a considerable more number of striations (lines) on the ribbon ends either side of the Hussars title than the Gaunt badge in Post 1: albeit some of them have been polished off.

The Marsh catalogue badges follow the Gaunt die style where as yours is noticeably different. It's a shame it is not marked but as you suggest could be a contender for a Firmin made badge who were the other major supplier with Gaunt at that time.

It would be interesting to see if any other members have a badge like yours.

A quick look on ebay has a Gaunt marked die cast collar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224535874...AAAOSwothg8KX3

as well as over twenty die struck fakes from the Marsh die with cap badge sliders. None of the ebay one shave your badge's designs which is a good sign for it.


Alan

Last edited by Alan O; 31-08-21 at 03:03 PM.
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  #26  
Old 31-08-21, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Mark

I have not seen one from that die before. There are a considerable more number of striations (lines) on the ribbon ends either side of the Hussars title than the Gaunt badge in Post 1: albeit some of them have been polished off.

The Marsh catalogue badges follow the Gaunt die style where as yours is noticeably different. It's a shame it is not marked but as you suggest could be a contender for a Firmin made badge who were the other major supplier with Gaunt at that time.

It would be interesting to see if any other members have a badge like yours.

A quick look on ebay has a Gaunt marked die cast collar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224535874...AAAOSwothg8KX3

as well as over twenty die struck fakes from the Marsh die with cap badge sliders. None of the ebay one shave your badge's designs which is a good sign for it.


Alan
Have a look at the top left badge, in the images posted in this previous thread.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...hlight=Hussars
Tony
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  #27  
Old 31-08-21, 03:37 PM
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Certainly not from the Marsh die. The jewels in the crown look better square letter ends are good signs. I’ve not seen one like it before. Definitely a better candidate for an original ORs die stamped badge and worthy of further investigation.
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  #28  
Old 22-10-21, 12:15 PM
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A "solid" Gaunt London I picked up in 2006, from a militaria collector (but not of British army insignia) in the Peterborough area.
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  #29  
Old 22-10-21, 12:20 PM
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Possibly bronzed, bought from "Regimentals" in 2007.
I have noted "Repro?" apparently at the same time I bought it, from the notes I made at the time.

A "Marsh"?
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  #30  
Old 22-10-21, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
A "solid" Gaunt London I picked up in 2006, from a militaria collector (but not of British army insignia) in the Peterborough area.
Nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Possibly bronzed, bought from "Regimentals" in 2007.
I have noted "Repro?" apparently at the same time I bought it, from the notes I made at the time.

A "Marsh"?
Marshed!
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