Possible early RAF

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Morning,
Attached 2 photos of my Grandfather WW1 period. I know he was in the RNAS and then the RAF when it was formed from the RNAS and RFC. But not sure of this uniform, cap badge and insignia.
Can anyone advise on badge & rank?
Thanks.

[manchesters]

Hello,

Interesting photos of two different uniforms.
Neither are connected with the RNAS or the RAF unfortunatey.

The first with the car is indicative of a Volunteer Training Corps Platoon Commander, equivalent to a Lt. or 2nd Lt. in the regular Army.

The second looks almost Yeomanry type but cant say which. Cant ID the large cap badge.

Are you sure this man is actually your grandfather as there is no connection to the uniforms I would expect from a Naval or RAF man?

regards

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Hi Simon,

Thanks. Yes, definitely my Grandfather. I've had a look at these photos again through a jewellers loop and the cap is the same in both images. In the image without the car the cap has a rain cover on, not in the second image. I'll have to blow them up on a scanner to see if I can get a better look at the badge.
He was RNAS/RAF WWI. I've had a closer look at the car and it's a 1920's Buick Coupe of some kind so these photos later than WW1 and are between the wars.

[Padre]

The uniforms shown are, as Simon says, neither RNAS nor RAF, despite the fact that there was a bit of a mixture worn after April 1918 (when the Royal Air Force was formed), due in part as it took some months to establish new uniform and insignia for the Force, but also because Officers and men were permitted a period of 'wearing out' of their previous uniforms.

I must say, (and don't shoot me down!) the uniforms remind me of one of those organisations like the Legion of Frontiersmen, Corps of Commissionaires or Salvation Army.

[manchesters]

Further to my ID of your grandfather as being in the VTC I think the cap badge may be that of the Volunteer Civil Force, also known as Winston's Bobbies, which beame part of the VTC in 1915 as the Westminster Battalion, West London Regiment, Volunteer Training Corps.

Was your grandfather in Westminster area in WW1?

regards

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Hi Padre

Thanks. Not going to shoot you down. I've had a ferret about. Because these images are interwar era I think he may have joined a territorial outfit. I can say with certainty it would not be the Salvation Army.
Without a 100% certainty but taking a clue from Simon's yeomanry suggestion I think it might be 3rd County of London (Sharp Shooters) uniform. The cap badge looks to be about the right shape and size. He was a stage and film actor and lived in London so that might fit.

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Hi Simon,
He was in London. I have found his papers and he served as a reservist the RNAS attached to HMS President, then the RAF. These images are post WW1 I have found.

[manchesters]

I am fairly confident the photos are around 1915 and not post war.

Due to his age (judging by the photos) he could have been a reservist without ever being put into uniform of the RNAS and consequently could well be a member of a VTC unit, which was the WW1 equivilent of the Home Guard.

regards

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Loyauté M'Oblige

I've had a closer look at the car and it's a 1920's Buick Coupe of some kind so these photos later than WW1 and are between the wars.

The car number plate has LA followed by 3 (or 4 ?) numbers , this would indicate that it was registered in London between APR 1910 -> JUL 1911.

LC - May 1905
LN - November 1906
LB - March 1908
LD - May 1909
LA - April 1910
LE - July 1911

.

[mike_vee]

Could he have served as a VTC officer pre/during WW1 then joined the Naval Reserve post war ?

Originally Posted by Loyauté M'Oblige

I have found his papers and he served as a reservist the RNAS attached to HMS President, then the RAF.

HMS President was a shore establishment /accounting base/drill ship in London , if you have his papers they should show his service record/number.

.

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Thanks Mike,

Forgot to check the registration number. He could well have served as you suggest. I have his records somewhere. Would they include his VTC service etc?
Getting bogged down with the car as research so far suggests it's a later model than registration indicates - will fish out his records and check.

Cheers

John

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Loyauté M'Oblige

I have his records somewhere. Would they include his VTC service etc?

John

No idea about that but possibly they would have his RNAS number which could indicate when he joined the reserve.

.

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Further to my ID of your grandfather as being in the VTC I think the cap badge may be that of the Volunteer Civil Force, also known as Winston's Bobbies, which beame part of the VTC in 1915 as the Westminster Battalion, West London Regiment, Volunteer Training Corps.

Was your grandfather in Westminster area in WW1?

regards

Hi Simon
Could be VCF badge - looks right shape and size.

Thanks

[Loyauté M'Oblige]

Originally Posted by Loyauté M'Oblige

Hi Simon
Could be VCF badge - looks right shape and size.

Thanks

Found this online: https://british-police-history.uk/f/vcf If you scroll down to the bottom the chap reading the message is wearing a similar uniform which would show your ID is correct - thanks.

John

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Loyauté M'Oblige

I have found his papers and he served as a reservist the RNAS attached to HMS President,

He may have never even been near HMS President , found this on a site about the early Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve :

All Officers employed in the Admiralty are nominally appointed to H.M.S. President.

.