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  #16  
Old 08-07-17, 09:58 AM
Phill Lockett's Avatar
Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Mike

Here is a discussion on the printed 101st and 1SSF form USMF.

Hope this helps.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...t#entry1346125

Phill
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  #17  
Old 10-07-17, 02:58 PM
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Another printed example, but I don't know what it sold for.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...force-11360895
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  #18  
Old 11-07-17, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTB View Post
The 1SSF badge was also used as a film prop for 'The Devil's Brigade" 1968 film. Just a thought.

GTB
Badges from those films were printed, the badges in "The Green Beret" were also on the whole printed and often come up for sale as economy manufacture when in fact probably 99% are film prop.

Tom
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  #19  
Old 22-07-17, 01:29 PM
loupie1961 loupie1961 is offline
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So I guess that this arc title I have received in a lot of British badges is a British Made US Army Airborne title, possibly part of the 101st Airborne division sign?
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  #20  
Old 22-07-17, 09:35 PM
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Yes

There are various embroidered or tailor made gold on black Airborne tabs that were used for 17th and 101st Abn Div.and Ninth AF troop carrier command.

Phill
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  #21  
Old 23-04-18, 07:50 AM
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Hewetson's were very much the leading company in embroidery, in particular, bullion, for example, they made the handsome little wings for the Parachute Regiment when they adopted their "Blues" after the war.
Having spoken to a number of people who work for the company I can confirm they did manufacture badges actually during the war years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
Very interesting information.

I think the Hewitson referred to is actually
AW Hewetson,
Embroidery Manufacturers,
Albion Mills,
London Road,
Macclesfield.

I have been unable to find any evidence of them manufacturing WW2 cloth badges but they were heavily involved in making badges for the post-war British Army.

Further information always welcome.

Jon
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  #22  
Old 23-04-18, 06:14 PM
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Useful confirmation of what seemed likely. The Ministry of Supply Contract record books for the post war period held in the National Archives at Kew show many orders to Hewetson's but the Ministry's wartime records for such cloth badges do not seem to have survived.

It is worth remembering that formation signs for the British Army - as opposed to shoulder and arm titles, trade and rank badges - were never supplied through official channels. From their origin in 1940 all purchases of formation signs were made by a designated, senior Ordnance officer of the formation who chose for himself the actual company who would make the signs.

Jon
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  #23  
Old 24-04-18, 07:02 AM
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Hello Jon,
I should have used the phase "worked for the company" and sadly, like the company itself, they are gone now.
A number of employees joined HM Forces during the war, some, never returned home, those who were leaving school in at the start of the war are sadly very few these days and those years are fading from living memory.
The town was built on it's silk trade throughout the nineteenth century and the first half of the twentieth, a far cry from today, a combination of cheaper foreign fabric and Mr's T policies killed it all.
The mill remains, but, in very poor condition, complete with the odd reminder of the time A W Hewetson manufactured there.
Regards Frank
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Last edited by Frank Kelley; 24-04-18 at 07:19 AM.
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  #24  
Old 24-04-18, 08:04 AM
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Hi Frank

Thank you for adding the images of AW Hewitsons to the thread.

My contention, is that AW Hewitson's was a leader in the tulle/lace industry and imported 4 schiffli hand looms from a St Gall manufacturer 1898 and then in 1905 imported the first schiffli automats.
Now what does this mean in reference to producing US SSI 35 years later during WWII you may ask.

Two points are known A)as we US patch collectors know from numerous examples there are British schiffli embroidered SSI made used during the war. They are slightly different to US made schifflli patches.
B)Nottingham and Macclesfield were the heart of schiffli embroidery Industry in England.

American's liked embroidered insignia and they wanted SSI in huge numbers, schiffli process was designed for mass production, the same design on a 30 yard machine could produce up to 4000 patches in one run, each SSI being identical to each other once the process and test run set up.
This is what the Americans wanted and urgently. However,because these were unauthorized SSI,ie not sanctioned by OQMG-Heraldry Section. Documentation is extremely hard to find.

The documentation that could exist,if you could find it,would be a purchase order/letter placed by individual senior officers thru QM channels from or within individual units ie Army, Corp, Div and other unit that had an official OQMG-drawing and that now would reside in some deep recess filing cabinet within the national archive in the US or location where the unit existed ie National Guard archives of each state.

So that is my contention gentlemen, I can't prove it, and Macclesfield is one place I would like to visit and find out more. As you say Frank "like the company itself, they are gone now."

The info I have is from 1965 Schiffli Embroidery Association, which outlines the history of schiffli embroidery. The book also use's the name John Hewitson UK (1898) and John Hewitson Nottingham(1905). I am assuming this is AW Hewitson.

Phill
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  #25  
Old 24-04-18, 08:37 AM
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Hello Phil,
Augustus William Hewetson set up his embroidery business in Macclesfield at the end of the nineteenth century, but, his name was HEWETSON not HEWITSON.
The company was indeed the leading one in the country in it's field and by 1932 it had opened a nice, new, purpose build mill, Augustus Mill in Macclesfield to take the business forward, the building remains today, as shown below.
It is my belief that they did indeed manufacture badges during the war years, but, that is based solely upon conversations I had some twenty years ago now with people who were employed there during the war.
As Jon points out, they were certainly manufacturing for the War Office after 1945 too.
Regards Frank
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  #26  
Old 24-04-18, 10:30 AM
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Hi Frank

I spelt his name incorrectly and it is Hewetson,I rechecked the book they mention the name Mr John Hewetson of Macclesfield. I think we can all agree it is AW Hewetson they are referring too.

I do know the Americans would of paid a minimum of 5-10 cents(US) per patch on minimum runs, so it would of been a great financial incentive for Hewetson's to get contracts.

The only issue with the SSI were the dye thread coloring, due to wartime condition's and British/US interpretation Olive Drab v khaki as an example.

Frank have you been inside the building?

Thanks again Frank, I tend to run on an oily rag for research, so any discussion on cloth embroidery manufacturing/ techniques during the war whether US or British helps me understand and maybe have a conversation!

Phill
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  #27  
Old 24-04-18, 01:15 PM
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Hello Phil,
Yes, I've been inside both their buildings, but, not during the time that the company was occupying them, they were subsequently used by a number of other companies for very different purposes, nothing whatsoever to do with embroidery.
All of Hewetson's fixtures and fittings are long gone and whilst Augustus Mill remains a sound building, Albion Mill is in a very poor state, as can be seen from the photographs.
Clearly, someone made all the embroidered badges for the United States, I see no reason why it could not have been A W Hewetson Ltd, but, actual proof beyond all reasonable doubt is another issue.

Both yourself and Jon have got me wondering now, there was another famous "silk" company in the town called BWA, who actually made Parachute canopies during the war, as well as the screen printed silk maps, they would certainly have had both War Office and Air Ministry contracts.

It would, doubtless, be very interesting, indeed, to read any surviving company ledgers and order books for the period in question.

Regards again, Frank
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