Oh dear !!!!!

[Peter Brydon]

All the items in the links are non genuine items being sold as genuine.

P.

[Slinky Cat]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Some examples or what happens in due course when repro (or whatever you what to call them ) items are produced:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10th-Batta...8AAOSwPNBdMw5y

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-8t...gAAOSwTglYk3b2

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liverpool-...kAAOSws59dNNdE

P.

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

All the items in the links are non genuine items being sold as genuine.

P.

but only the middle link is being sold as original / genuine ?
not defending the seller but we need to be careful

[Paul Spellman]

They are all described as used and there is no mention of them being fake/reproduction.

I personally think people are wasting their time highlighting fake stuff on here because as long as people including members of this forum continue to buy from the sellers and auctioneers who persistently flog this stuff (even if the odd badge is fine) the problem will never go away
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

some T&Cs at an auction today.
It still didn’t stop people bidding stupid money at their sale

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

I personally think people are wasting their time highlighting fake stuff on here because as long as people including members of this forum continue to buy from the sellers and auctioneers who persistently flog this stuff (even if the odd badge is fine) the problem will never go away
Paul

Agreed, but with a little knowledge, poor quality fakes are easy to spot The problem, as highlighted in the original post, is that the quality, method and materials used to make a replica formation sign are such, that with a few years of natural ageing, they will be indistinguishable from the real thing.

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

some T&Cs at an auction today.
It still didn’t stop people bidding stupid money at their sale

They surely couldn't get away with those T&Cs at Christie's when they are selling million dollar art works.

[Paul Spellman]

Ahh but Simon,
They have similar qualifications, to me some auction houses are sinking to rag and bone men, actually that’s probably a slant on the men with a cart as they would more likely have genuine items-so my apologies to all rag and bone men.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by High Wood

They surely couldn't get away with those T&Cs at Christie's when they are selling million dollar art works.

Funny you should mention Christie's

Originally Posted by mike_vee

Fair enough but sometimes even the "experts" are fooled.

"Bolton Museum paid £440,000 for the Amarna Princess figure, believing it had acquired a 3,300-year-old artefact.

But the statue of the granddaughter of King Tutankhamun was actually created by prolific forger Shaun Greenhalgh in his garden shed.

The Amarna Princess was authenticated by auctioneer Christie's and the British Museum before being bought by Bolton Museum"

[akiko]

Originally Posted by High Wood

The problem, as highlighted in the original post, is that the quality, method and materials used to make a replica formation sign are such, that with a few years of natural ageing, they will be indistinguishable from the real thing.

I disagree. I recently spoke to someone about fakes and they said it was easier to come to me and ask me. In other words, some serious collectors find it easier for whatever reason to send me photos or links to an item to verify if it is genuine. As a researcher and a small-time collector, I go the other way. When I first started collecting I would ask numerous questions about items from other serious collectors. Some knew what I wanted to know and some didn't but research has always been one of my great loves and sometimes it has taken me years to discover the facts. Some information I have never discovered and that may stay the case.
This may or may not sound arrogant but with what I collect I have no problems verifying whether it is genuine but I have spent years researching my subject.
It doesn't bother me that people don't or don't do any research on what they collect but then they shouldn't complain if they get conned.
Another problem is, including on this forum, collectors only ever get told whether an item is genuine or fake. Rarely are they told why it is fake and what distinguishes the genuine item from the fake one. Some collectors believe this alerts the people who get fakes made. It may alert them but I have never seen any evidence to show that they make items as good as the originals from having that knowledge.

[Slinky Cat]

Originally Posted by akiko

I disagree. I recently spoke to someone about fakes and they said it was easier to come to me and ask me. In other words, some serious collectors find it easier for whatever reason to send me photos or links to an item to verify if it is genuine. As a researcher and a small-time collector, I go the other way. When I first started collecting I would ask numerous questions about items from other serious collectors. Some knew what I wanted to know and some didn't but research has always been one of my great loves and sometimes it has taken me years to discover the facts. Some information I have never discovered and that may stay the case.
This may or may not sound arrogant but with what I collect I have no problems verifying whether it is genuine but I have spent years researching my subject.
It doesn't bother me that people don't or don't do any research on what they collect but then they shouldn't complain if they get conned.
Another problem is, including on this forum, collectors only ever get told whether an item is genuine or fake. Rarely are they told why it is fake and what distinguishes the genuine item from the fake one. Some collectors believe this alerts the people who get fakes made. It may alert them but I have never seen any evidence to show that they make items as good as the originals from having that knowledge.

I completely agree. I know what I collect inside out and have a general knowledge of other bits. If I wander outside my usual collecting field I ask someone who knows it better than me

aged repro cloth - will never look, feel and smell the same as WW2

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by akiko

I disagree. I recently spoke to someone about fakes and they said it was easier to come to me and ask me. In other words, some serious collectors find it easier for whatever reason to send me photos or links to an item to verify if it is genuine. As a researcher and a small-time collector, I go the other way. When I first started collecting I would ask numerous questions about items from other serious collectors. Some knew what I wanted to know and some didn't but research has always been one of my great loves and sometimes it has taken me years to discover the facts. Some information I have never discovered and that may stay the case.
This may or may not sound arrogant but with what I collect I have no problems verifying whether it is genuine but I have spent years researching my subject.
It doesn't bother me that people don't or don't do any research on what they collect but then they shouldn't complain if they get conned.
Another problem is, including on this forum, collectors only ever get told whether an item is genuine or fake. Rarely are they told why it is fake and what distinguishes the genuine item from the fake one. Some collectors believe this alerts the people who get fakes made. It may alert them but I have never seen any evidence to show that they make items as good as the originals from having that knowledge.

Which only goes to prove the old adage that you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. but that you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

That said, no one is infallible.

Simon. (Fifty years collecting and still learning).

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Slinky Cat

I completely agree. I know what I collect inside out and have a general knowledge of other bits. If I wander outside my usual collecting field I ask someone who knows it better than me

aged repro cloth - will never look, feel and smell the same as WW2

It seems that you may have missed my point. 100 years from now, after the items have aged naturally, there will be no one alive who remembers what WW2 cloth felt or smelt like.

[Slinky Cat]

Originally Posted by High Wood

It seems that you may have missed my point. 100 years from now, after the items have aged naturally, there will be no one alive who remembers what WW2 cloth felt or smelt like.

Have you not heard of cryogenics?
I am going to be the first collector put into the deep freeze

[akiko]

Originally Posted by High Wood

Simon. (Fifty years collecting and still learning).

The amount of time collecting or the experience doesn't mean one is good at what they do. I have never understood why people think that because someone has done something for a long time that they must be good at what they do.
I don't know you maybe, but there are certainly others that aren't.

No-one learns everything but some learn a lot more than others.

[akiko]

Originally Posted by High Wood

It seems that you may have missed my point. 100 years from now, after the items have aged naturally, there will be no one alive who remembers what WW2 cloth felt or smelt like.

Funny I have never smelt cloth to help me to decide it's age. I must be a noob.