8th of Foot badge for Mutiny-Afghan Period

[13th King]

Hi All,

Straight forward question, asking what was the regimental cap badge for the Liverpools during the mid to late 1800's. I am looking to match up a couple of badges to medals I have bought recently.

Many thanks.

13th King.

[Peter Brydon]

There is an article in The Kingsman magazine for December 1929 ( Vol 2 No 1 ) entitled "Uniform Worn by 8th Kings at Period of Campaign in Afghanistan 1878-80 " but I only have a copy of the article and not the illustrations that go with it.

There are a number of illustrations of the uniforms worn in The Regiment Magazine issue 3 "The Kings Regiment" August/September 1994.

It appears that the 8th foot pre territorial glengarry badge was worn by the rank and file of the 1st Battalion in England and the same badge by the 2nd battalion in India on a red cloth patch on the white helmet ( which was worn with a khaki cover in Afghanistan ).

This would appear to be the best representative badge to go with the medals.

P.B.

[13th King]

Hi P.B.,

Many thanks for your speedy reply. I shall seek one out soon.


Best wishes.

13th King.

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks 13 th,

I noticed this morning that a well known E bayer Hogspear has an overseas helmet for sale with the well known 8th (Scottish ) V.B. Kings repro officers cross belt plate on the front.

Very disappointing that a vendor who generally has such quality items for sale should have been fooled by this item.

P.B.

[13th King]

Hi P.B.

I have only been connected to the Liverpool's since discovering my Grandfather was an original Chindit in 1943. You will know that these men were made up of a draft battalion from the 13th King's in 1942. I have heavily researched these soldiers and have got a good understanding of what they got up to in Burma.
My Grandfather did not return home from Burma, dying a POW in Rangoon Jail in June 1943. Over half the 13th King's did not return from that operation.

I am in contact with several Chindit families from back then and have helped them discover more about their Burma connection. I travelled to Burma in March 2008 and followed the exploits of the Chindits, visiting many of the places where they saw action.

So that is how one way or another I have begun to read, follow and pick up the odd piece of militaria regarding the King's either going forwards or back in history from WW2.

Thanks for the help you have given, in reality I like to pick up cap badges sometimes to sit alongside the medals I have found. Do you recommend a good seller of decent badges that I can source. I have used Ebay quite a bit, but it can be a bit hit and miss.

13th King.

[Peter Brydon]

Hello again 13th,

I have a couple of books about the Chindits because of the Kings Liverpool connection.

The badge mentioned in my earlier post is quite a difficult one to find a genuine example of.If you would be prepared to use a repro to show with the medals you have, they come up on a very regular basis on E bay.

There is a list of recommended dealers on this site and they will probably have genuine examples from time to time.

Hope this is of some help

Regards

P.S You probably already have a copy of this photo of officers of the 13th Kings

Peter

[13th King]

Thanks for your help P.B.

I have seen that photo before, is it from Burke-Gaffney? I managed to find a copy of that book through my local library and studied the Roll of Honour at the back. It was the first time I saw my Grandad's name in black and white regarding WW2. He proved difficult to trace at first but after some intense effort things opened up for me and his story unravelled.

If you ever need Chindit 1943 info, I could be your man?

Thanks again.

13th King.

[Peter Brydon]

No it is not from Burke Gaffney, it is from Wingates Phantom Army by W.G.Burchett.
P.B.

[13th King]

P.B.

You have got me searching my copy of 'Phantom Army' for that photo. What page is it on roughly? I have a copy of it on my computer files which I collected a couple of years ago. In my version of the book there is a photo around page 128 of Denny Sharp's dispersal group and their dog 'Judy'. My Grandfather and another soldier named Ambrose were lost to this group on 18/04/1943. So near and yet so far (about 5 days), from reaching safety.

13th King.

[Silver Tourist]

Good evening.

Your enquiry concerned badges of the 8th Foot for the period of the Afghan Mutiny: what follows may, or may not be of interest to you. As ever I choose my words with care.

In May 1991 I, along with two other specialist collectors, was offered an opportunity to buy items from the collection of Andrew Murdoch of Blackpool, prior to the balance of the collection being dispersed at auction following his impending death.

Among the items in the Murdoch collection that I was able to purchase was a large officer`s Foreign Service helmet badge to The King`s. My notes of the purchase suggest it was identified as being to the 2nd. Bn. Unfortunately, and with considerable regret, I no longer have the item in my collection, but a short description may suffice.

If memory serves me correctly it was in silver gilt and consisted of a white horse on an oval red enamel ground surrounded by a gilt strap or garter with a blue ground, all within a gilt wreath. The whole surmounted with a gilt QVC. There were four threaded posts to the rear. It was hallmarked London 1888 with the maker`s mark of JM, within a shield. That was the mark for John Newton Mappin (As in, Mappin & Webb, latterly of Regent Street, London). It appeared to have been die-cast or die-pressed. I have no note of dimensions, but recall it being some 100mm tall and perhaps 65mm wide.

Sadly, I had to dispose of the badge, via the late Norman Litchfield, in June 1991. I believe it found a home in one of the UK`s leading KLR collections, where I believe it resides to this day. That was the only example I have seen in over 40 years of collecting. So, rare to say the least!

I hope that helps.

Subsequently, I note responses from Forum members seem to have progressed matters on to WWII. Given the content of those posts, and your own responses, you may well wish to consult `History of the 2nd. King Edward`s Own Goorkha Rifles` Vol. III. 1921-1948, by Lt. Col. G R Stevens, OBE. Pub. Gale & Polden Ltd. 1952, pp198 et seq. It contains details of 13 KLR as part of The Chindit Expedition. For a copy, or extract, I suggest you contact the Gurkha Museum at Winchester. I know the Library there has a copy and, for a small contribution to Funds, may provide you with a photocopy of the relevant pages. I have always found the staff there most helpful.

Regards.
ST.

[13th King]

Thanks ST.

It sounds as though you wish you had kept the items mentioned. We all have minor regrets such as these, but I guess that is life. It has been difficult to find even an image of the helmet badge you describe. But it does sound like an elaborate and larger version of the Kings Glengarry that '8thfoot' has helped me with.

With regards to the Chindits, the one area I have needed to investigate for some time now is the 3/2 Gurkhas. So, I will hopefully take a trip out to Winchester soon, to view some of the War Diaries, books etc. I have emailed them before, and as you rightly say, they are very helpful.

Many thanks again.

13th King.