37th Artillery Cap, Real or Memorex

[cefguy]

Hello:
I acquired this cap badge very near when I started collecting CEF badges. I have learned a lot about badges since that date, but I am still not really there on artillery badges. In any event I will throw this out there for comments in the hope of learning some specifics about the characteristics of these badges both right and wrong.
Don

[Bill A]

Don, how long ago did you get this badge? (Approximate year?)

[cefguy]

Bill:
It was probably around 2005 I think.
Don

[mad4thcef]

Don

I'll go with memorerx.

I wouldn't touch this badge with a 100 foot pole!


There is much info about reproduction arty badges here!

You been thunderstruck my friend.

I hope you did pay much for this?

[cefguy]

Rob:
It did cost too much for sure. It was probably the second artillery badge I acquired. I think that I was leaning too heavily on the expert source at the time. I think that I have read most of the posts on Arty badges on this forum, and I think that I will have to try to gather them all up in one spot.

In any event, let's just say for a minute that I wanted to fake an artillery cap badge either for fun or profit. Let's further assume I had the capability to produce the "wheel" and make it as good as the one on this badge. I would either have to hunt around to find one to copy or I would have to get creative and make up a set of dies or get set up to cast one. But if I could do that and make it look fairly good, I wouldn't even bother with trying to copy the actual body of the badge. Why when there are so many out there that would be suitable donors? Why not just concentrate the energy on a really high quality "wheel" and fix it onto the chassis of a genuine cap badge? Just wondering is all.
Don

[mad4thcef]

NP

First sign no 37th Bty badge LOL

[cefguy]

Rob:
I know that is the common wisdom, but there certainly was a 37th Battery. Don't know how someone can guarantee that there was no badge for them. In the short time I have collected I have kicked over a few nice badges that "don't exist". I would think that it would be much easier to copy a badge that did exist than one that didn't. That would certainly up the amount of work in creating a whole new badge as opposed to just using an existing piece to copy in the casting.
Don

[redman]

Must agree that I would be very wary of a lugged artillery badge.
I have been stung also in the past.
Not even sure I have seen a genuine artillery badge.
Dan

[cefguy]

Dan:
I agree, that is one of the things that I also have learned over the last decade. It is reassuring (but not an absolute) to see either the tangs on the back or evidence of where the tangs used to be on the back of any artillery cap badge. It is too bad that one has to be so careful on these. That said I think that there is room for some lugged arty badges, but as I think we all agree they have to be approached with caution.
Cheers
Don

[Bill A]

The badge in question looks like one of the Drac's reproductions. There are some threads on here about their repros.

[cefguy]

Bill:
Thanks for the thought. I know that I have read most of those threads over the last couple of years. I am going to search out these threads and try to get all of the artillery references in one spot for my own notes.
Thank you
Don

[Bill A]

Don, here is a link to a thread on Drack/Drac artillery badges. Note the 37th is listed. http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ghlight=dracks

[Bill A]

At an Ottawa show years ago, a vendor had a grocery bag full of Drack's artillery badges. I should have bought a couple for reference. I think Tony Reintjes imaged, weighed and measured several of the copies for reference files for JHA. These are a prefect example of the problem with repro's. Being un-marked they are now passed off as original.

[cefguy]

Bill:
Thank you for the link. I had seen this a few years ago and was having trouble finding it again.

On the same line I have been told that most of the CEF badges are die struck. Some badges are cast, mostly officers'. In reading some really informative posts on this site I have learned that there are almost three really distinct categories of production of badges.

1. Die struck as we all are familiar with where the die for the front of the badge (the female die) forms the face of the badge and the die for the back (the male die) is pretty much the identical image. These dies used in the traditional sort of impact force drop press more or less hammering the metal into the female die producing a very sharp clear image. Also a very sharp image on the back of the badge.

2. The development of hydraulic presses where the metal is squeezed or pressed into the female mold making the male die redundant. This accounts for some of the flat back or almost flat back badges that we see.

3. Casting. Probably less used than I certainly thought, but generally believed to produce a somewhat less sharp image.

For those that have not had the chance to read the posts available on this forum by Neibelungen I urge you to do so. The posts are highly informative. In any event another question is were there any real artillery cap badges that have either solid backs or what might be thought of as "semi solid" backs? These would be badges that until recently I would have thought were cast, but may have come out of a press die scenario with a flat or nearly flat male die. Or is it fair to say that the only difference between an OR's artillery cap and an Officer's cap is the existence of an overlay on the wheel?
Thank you
Don

[Bill A]

Don, there are a couple of types of methods for casting, and iirc, depending on the type of cast the product is equal in detail to die struck.
There are some other differences that can be found on or's vs officers badges. Officers tend to be cast, and bronze. If brass, some appear to be made from a heavier planchette. The finish for officers' badges is usually darker when compared to or's, or gilt or fire gilt.