RCDC Seniority?

[servicepub]

Originally Posted by edstorey

Perhaps when all of the senior officers were gathered about making the decision, the doctors and the dentists could drink more than the Ordnance Officers. Or maybe some people had their annual medicals and dentals coming up and they didn't want to piss off the medical people by putting them too low on the list.

In all seriousness though, I would be interested in what the criteria actually was. If there were any...

More likely that the RCOC/RCASC et al were viewed as 'trades' while the RCAMC/RCDC were 'professionals'...

[Bill A]

Originally Posted by servicepub

I heard (unsubstantiated rumour follows) that the RNR where given a preference in the Order of Seniority as part of the negotiations in bringing NL into Confederation, along with a guarantee that it would be the last Militia unit disbanded.

Hi Clive, Not sure about your point? The R Nfld R is one of the junior regiments of the Canadian army according to both the pre-unification and post unification seniority lists. I am not sure if the JTF2 is recognized as a unit in seniority, and where the CSOR fit into seniority. If they are not included, the R Nfld R would likely be junior.

[edstorey]

I have e-mailed DHH and I got a reply telling me that "Order of Precedence is based on Seniority", in this case on the date when the corps or branch was formed.

[Bill A]

Which, according to The Regiments and Corps of The Canadian Army is not the order of precedence. Some units formed after others supercede in seniority. Back to the top of this discussion, re RCOC.

[edstorey]

Who published the Regiments and Corps of the Canadian Army, was it government or private?

[Bill A]

Prepared by the Army Historical Section, Volume 1 of the Canadian Army List, Published by the Authority of the Minister of National Defence. 1964

[edstorey]

Do the Canadian Corps not take their precedence from the parent British Corps? Was the RAMC formed before the RAOC?

[edstorey]

The Canadian Engineers were formed in 1903, yet because the Royal Engineers place after Artillery, the Canadian as do all of the other Commonweath Engineer Corps do so as well.

[Bill A]

Hmm. Two different things here. Seniority and precedence are not necessarily the same thing. The RCHA, when parading with their guns are the right of the line. But, the RCAC (armoured corps) are senior to all others, even though the corps was not formed until 1940. So Ed, there is substance to the precedence being taken from British sources. Post unification, it is Armoured Branch, the Regiment of Royal Canadian Artillery, Military Engineering Branch, Communications Branch, Admn, Log, Medical, Dental, Security, Infantry, LORE, Chaplain, Legal, Band. (This is circa 1982.)
Ed, perhaps your contact at DND could provide a current list of precedence.
It still doesn't look like seniority determines the order of precedence.

[edstorey]

Bill, I believe they are one in the same thing. The Order of Precedence is lead by the senior unit. In the case of the Armoured Corps, even though they were formed in 1940, their lineage was Cavalry so that made them senior to the Artillery. Artillery form up on the 'Right of the Line' not because they are senior, but it is an honour for them thet they have earned. Here is what The Royal regiment of Artillery site says:

1. The honour of “The Right of the Line”, on an army parade, is held by the units of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery when on parade with their guns. On dismounted parades, RCHA units take precedence over all other land force units except formed bodies of Officer Cadets of the Royal Military College representing their college. RCA units parade to the left of units of the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps. Details concerning precedence within the Canadian Forces are given in CFAO 61-6.

http://www.artillery.net/new/soch5.html

Without pestering DHH too much on this, and I do not really like to quote Wikipedia, but in this case their current publised list is correct for the CF. There is the link. There may even be a DND link, I have not checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia..._of_precedence

The Canuck site has partials listings by year.

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/orga...ganization.htm

ED

[Bill A]

Hey Ed, I am still not sure precedence and seniority are the same thing. For example, a note in the Regiments and Corps of the Canadian Army indicates that units of Guards (horse and foot) take precedence over other units within thier corps regardless of date of origin. (emphasis is mine.) That provision was added especially to cover the Canadian Guards, but it also clearly indicates that their are exceptions to seniority.
Re the wiki site. Check the regular force armoured units for the first omission. They left out the 8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's). And JTF2 and CSOR are not included. So, I am not sure it is correct for the current CF precedence.

[Phillip Herring]

The 8th Canadian Hussars have been reverted to militia - full circle.

Phil

[Bill A]

Hi Phil, When was that change?
An additional comment about precendence vs seniority. Note that being regular force versus reserve changes the precedence regardless of seniority.

[Phillip Herring]

Follow this link:

http://8chassociation.com/Regiment1.html

1993 - Total Force unit
1998 - Reverted to reserve

Phil

[Bill A]

Thanks Phil. Obviously way out of the loop.