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  #1  
Old 07-03-15, 02:55 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Default The Gun badge for SNCO

There has been a lively discussion at:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...pic=223492&hl=

regarding a photo of a staff sgt Australian Artillery Great War without a gun badge between chevrons and crown.

I would be most grateful if anyone here could add anything. The central question is "were there any circumstances in which such an NCO would not be expected to wear the badge?"
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  #2  
Old 07-03-15, 04:32 PM
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fairlie63 fairlie63 is offline
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Just registered on that forum so will have to wait until I'm accepted but think I can help.
Keith
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  #3  
Old 07-03-15, 05:05 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Thank you very much indeed.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-15, 06:18 PM
REMEVMBEA1 REMEVMBEA1 is offline
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I was just wondering if perhaps acting sergeants didn't wear the gun.
Whoops just noticed he was a Staff Sgt and I would assume even an acting Staff Sgt would have the gun.

Last edited by REMEVMBEA1; 09-03-15 at 01:22 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-15, 07:58 PM
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This chap has 3 chevrons crown above no gun in between: BQMS I think.
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  #6  
Old 08-03-15, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
There has been a lively discussion at:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...pic=223492&hl=

regarding a photo of a staff sgt Australian Artillery Great War without a gun badge between chevrons and crown.

I would be most grateful if anyone here could add anything. The central question is "were there any circumstances in which such an NCO would not be expected to wear the badge?"
hi
can we see the pic concerned? I looked at the link but couldn't open the pic
bc
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  #7  
Old 08-03-15, 10:55 AM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Thank you: I have just clicked the link and the Photo opened "just like that". I will look into getting it on to this site later.
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  #8  
Old 08-03-15, 04:35 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Default The original

herewith
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ozarty post-91095-0-48720600-1421663636 x.jpg (39.0 KB, 58 views)
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  #9  
Old 08-03-15, 05:39 PM
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My opoinion is that he is in the Australian Infantry and he has borrowed a BRITISH cap off a RA man for the photo or its the "Studio" cap.

The Australians didnt have a the crowned gun badge as a cap badge in WW1 so it cant be his.

regards
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  #10  
Old 09-03-15, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
My opoinion is that he is in the Australian Infantry and he has borrowed a BRITISH cap off a RA man for the photo or its the "Studio" cap.

The Australians didnt have a the crowned gun badge as a cap badge in WW1 so it cant be his.

regards
agree with simon
definitely Australian but has added a british cap from somewhere.
btw
Abraham Ernest STANSFIELD

Regimental number 1500
Religion Church of England
Occupation Ironmoulder
Address Beach Street, Port Melbourne, Victoria
Marital status Single
Age at embarkation 28
Next of kin Sister, Miss H Stansfield, 64 Lyon Street, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Enlistment date 21 August 1914
Rank on enlistment Gunner
Unit name Field Artillery Brigade 2, Brigade Ammunition Column
AWM Embarkation Roll number 13/30/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Melbourne, Victoria, on board HMAT A27 Southern on 20 October 1914
Rank from Nominal Roll Private
Unit from Nominal Roll 2nd Field Artillery Brigade Ammunition Column
Fate Returned to Australia 1 February 1916
Miscellaneous details (Nominal Roll) *Abraham spelt Abram

but his national archives say he returned to Australia 28/7/15
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Searc...aspx?B=8091989
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  #11  
Old 09-03-15, 03:53 AM
Donny B. Donny B. is offline
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Well done, badgecollector!


Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
My opoinion is that he is in the Australian Infantry

He is wearing leggings, so unlikely infantry.
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  #12  
Old 09-03-15, 06:15 AM
militiaman militiaman is offline
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Hi Badgecollector

I can accept that the hat is a photo-prop to enhance the photo. Especially as the badge is in brass, and all the other metal insignia looks dull/oxidised. Also, I recall reading that only the Siege Brigades were allowed to wear artillery hat badges (RAA in scroll) everyone else was to wear rising suns. Unofficially, I don't now.

I don't see any difference in badge silhouette or hat shape to say that the cap/badge is a British one as opposed to an Australian one. Am I wrong on this assumption?

Also, how did you get to put a name to the photo? The thread from the other forum did not seem to mention a name.

All the best

Dennis
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  #13  
Old 09-03-15, 10:54 AM
Donny B. Donny B. is offline
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"Abram Stansfield", given as the jpg name of the file attached to the first post on that other thread was probably a pretty good starting point.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-15, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by militiaman View Post
Hi Badgecollector

I can accept that the hat is a photo-prop to enhance the photo. Especially as the badge is in brass, and all the other metal insignia looks dull/oxidised. Also, I recall reading that only the Siege Brigades were allowed to wear artillery hat badges (RAA in scroll) everyone else was to wear rising suns. Unofficially, I don't now.

I don't see any difference in badge silhouette or hat shape to say that the cap/badge is a British one as opposed to an Australian one. Am I wrong on this assumption?

Also, how did you get to put a name to the photo? The thread from the other forum did not seem to mention a name.

All the best

Dennis
hi Dennis
Donny answered the second part of your question. "Abram Stansfield", given as the jpg name of the file attached.

as for the badge, I believe this style of badge (gun badge) wasn't introduced into the ADF for wear until the 1930s therefore cant be an Australian badge.
im sure there have been threads on here before regarding this.
cheers
bc
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  #15  
Old 09-03-15, 04:36 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Thanks to all contributors.

I will attempt to summarise, please disagree if I get it wrong.

Subject may be Abram Stansfield, an Australian who did not achieve senior rank.

Jacket is probably that of a RAA staff sergeant, and the lack of a gun badge above chevrons is not cause to disbelieve that.

Cap badge [and cover?] is anomalous.

[The poor blighter looks awkward, uncomfortable and nervous, as well he might!]
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