WO1 Rank Badge - Border Colours Help Needed

[Shiny]

Hi All,

I'm looking for a bit of help identifying the coloured borders on WO1 rank badges.

I'm guessing the different colours are worn by different Regiments and Corps but I was wondering if anyone has a list identifying who wears what. If not, maybe we could start a bit of a list going here?

Thanks a lot,

Michael

[49lassiepen]

See grey green acorn album
David

[54Bty]

Maybe this will help.

WORSTED COLOURED BORDER

Border Colour; Regiment or Corps

Beech Brown; Auxiliary Territorial Service and Women's Royal Army Corps
Black; Army Physical Training Corps
Blue; Corps of Royal Engineers, Royal Corps of Signals and Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers
Cambridge Blue; Glider Pilot Regiment, Parachute Regiment (later no border), Army Air Corps, Small Arms School Corps and Royal Army Educational Corps;
Dull Cherry; Royal Army Medical Corps
Green; Intelligence Corps and Reconnaissance Corps
Emerald Green; Royal Army Dental Corps
Maroon; Royal Army Veterinary Corps
Pigeon Grey (Grebe Grey); Army Catering Corps
Red; Royal Regiment of Artillery
Rifle Green; Royal Ulster Rifles
Scarlet; Infantry (except Highland Light Infantry), Royal Army Ordnance Corps, Royal Pioneer Corps, Corps of Military Police and Military Provost Staff Corps
Yellow; Royal Armoured Corps Royal Army Pay Corps
None (since 1957); Royal Army Service Corps

WORSTED COLOURED BACKGROUND

Badge colour; Regiment or Corps
Black and Gold on Rifle Green; Royal Green Jackets and 21st Special Air Service Regiment (V)
Black and Silver on Rifle Green; The Rifles
Black on Cameronian Green; Cameronians
Black on Pompadour Blue; 22nd Special Air Service Regiment and 23rd Special Air Service Regiment (V)
Black on Red; King's Royal Rifle Corps, 2nd Gurkha Rifles and 2nd Green Jackets
Black on Red; Junior Leaders (different shape)
Black on Rifle Green; Rifle Brigade, Royal Ulster Rifles, 6th Gurkha Rifles, 7th Gurkha Rifles and Royal Green Jackets
Brown on Khaki; Guards (other than the RSM)
Coloured on Khaki; Royal Corps of Transport
Dark Green on Maize; Light Infantry
Green on Scarlet; Ulster Defence Regiment (Women only)
Grey on Scarlet; Queen Alexandra's Royal Army Nursing Corps
Piper Green on Black; Royal Irish Rangers
Red on Blue; Guards and Household Cavalry Athol Grey Great Coat
White on Khaki; Parachute Regiment and Army Cadet Force
Black on Blue; Queen's Own Gurkha Signals

[Shiny]

Thanks very much for the help, that's fantastic.

Michael

[Tigerlily]

Marc your a star!

[ianh67military]

I was given access to the NATO Stock Number (NSN) library many years ago, and got bored one day. It may help ID some badges if you can still read the numbers on the back/packaging. The list below contains the last 7 digits of the NSN. The initial digits will all be the same (8455-99-) and are ignored here. Do I qualify for a golden anorak? :

ARMY WO1 & RSM Badges

description unit NSN
Royal Arms on khaki, black border (APTC) 977-1498 
“ “ , light blue “ (AAC/SASC) 130-4393 
“ “ , dark blue “ (RE/R Sigs/REME) 977-1500 
“ “ , red “ (RA) 977-1502 
“ “ , scarlet “ (Inf/RAOC/RMP/RPC) 977-1503 
“ “ , yellow “ (RAPC/RAC/RCT/ACC) 977-1504 
“ “ , dull cherry “ (RAMC) 977-1508 
“ “ , beech brown“ (WRAC) 973-9223 
“ “ , grebe grey “ (ACC) 977-7749 
“ “ , green “ (RADC) 977-8200 

Royal Arms , black on rifle green (6,7,10 GR) 130-4391 
“ , piper green on black (R Irish) 130-4394 
“ , grey on scarlet (QARANC) small: 132-2357/lge: 973-9235
“ , green on scarlet (UDR women) 132-4412
“ , black on lt blue (22/23 SAS) 974-1286 
“ , black on scarlet (2GR, Juniors) 977-1499 
“ , rifle green on maize (LI) 977-1501 
“ , green on beech brown (WRAC) 977-2034 
“ , black on blue (QGE/QGS) 213-0966 



Royal Arms brown on khaki - extra regt employed WO1 Foot Gds 977-1509 

Royal Arms gold on khaki, large - RSM Foot Guards 973-9241 

Royal Arms scarlet on dark blue - greatcoat - RSM Foot Guards 975-6574 

Royal Arms yellow on dark blue - cloak - Cpl Majors 975-6577

Royal Arms white on khaki - all other Regts/Corps 130-4392 

Royal Arms yellow/white on khaki 977-1505 


Gilding metal, black finish - RGJ/Gurkhas 973-9220 

Aluminium anodised, gold 973-9221 

Aluminium anodised, silver - LI/R Irish 973-9222 


woven, dark brown on olive drab (combat dress) 132-3940 

woven, dark brown on tan (desert combat dress) 132-1413 

woven, scarlet on grey (QARANC ward dress) 132-6499 


self adhesive black on olive drab (NBC suit) 978-4703 


BULLION EMBROIDERED:

gold/silver on beech brown No 1 dress, WRAC 132-2350/977-9917
gold/silver on green No 1 dress, Int Corps 132-6690 
gold/silver on primrose yellow No 1 dress, RAPC  132-6691/973-9261
gold/silver on royal blue No 1 dress, 4/7 DG 132-6692/973-9264
gold/silver on black No 1 dress, RTR/Staffs/Mercian Band 977-4566
gold/silver on white No 1 dress, 13:18/17:21/PWO/RCT 132-6710/973-9266
gold/ silver on cambridge blue Nos 1 & 2 dress, AAC No 1: 132-6711/No 2: 973-9247
gold/silver on pompadour blue No 1 dress, 21:22:23 SAS 977-9527 
gold/silver on grebe grey No 1 dress, ACC 977-4567 
gold/silver on emerald green No 1 dress, RADC 977-9911
gold/silver on dull cherry No 1 dress, RAMC 977-9912 
gold/silver on crimson No 1 dress, Royal Hussars 977-9914
gold/silver on gosling green No 1 dress, 5RRF 977-9915
gold/silver on lincoln green No 1 dress, WFR, RY Band 977-9916
gold/silver on dark blue No 1 dress, H’hold Cav + various 977-9918 
gold/silver on dark green No 1 dress, Kings 977-9919
gold/silver on maroon No 1 dress, Para/RAVC 977-9920 
gold/silver on buff No 1 dress, Cheshire 977-9952
gold/silver on pearl grey No 1 dress, Gib Regt 977-9953
gold/silver on scarlet, large No 1 dress, RSM Foot Guards 975-6575
gold/silver on scarlet No 1 dress, Cpl Major Guards 975-6579
gold/silver on scarlet No 1 dress, various/others 977-9954 
gold/silver on yellow No 1 dress, Glos/Hamps/Gordons/A&SH 977-9955 

gold on green No 1 dress, Int Corps 973-9256
gold on rifle green No 1 dress, Scots 977-1937
gold on grass green No 1 dress, D&D/Green Hwds/RRW 977-9913 

silver on rifle green No 1 dress, LI 977-9959 
silver on black No 1 dress, R Irish/N Irish Militia 977-9951/977-9960
silver on dark blue, large No 1 dress, RSM Foot Guards 973-9271
silver on dark blue No 1 dress, 4RTR 977-9956 
silver on cambridge blue No 1 dress, SASC 977-9957 

black/gold on rifle green No 1 dress, RGJ 977-9958 
black/silver on rifle green No 1 dress, Rifles ?? 

silver on ?? SRR ?? 

[ianh67military]

I may well have the NSN's for the later additions at the bottom of the list somewhere. Bear in mind this was prob mid/late 80's when I initially did it, and I did amend it later. I think the SRR colour may be "midnight blue" or something similar too. There's also a blue on black Gurkha Signals WO1 that I've seen.
I've also got the RM NSN's somewhere too. All the Lovat and Dress badges as well as combats.

Ian H

[54Bty]

[QUOTE=ianh67military;363703]I was given access to the NATO Stock Number (NSN) library many years ago, and got bored one day. It may help ID some badges if you can still read the numbers on the back/packaging. The list below contains the last 7 digits of the NSN. The initial digits will all be the same (8455-99-) and are ignored here. Do I qualify for a golden anorak?[QUOTE]

In the majority of cases the number on the back of the Wire embroidered badges is the Pattern number not the NSN.

Marc

[ianh67military]

Marc,
the inability of the three branches of the Armed Forces to adopt and then utilise a single common system, lets say it could be called a "NATO Stock Number" for ease, that could be used by all members of NATO, has been a source of apoplexy for many of us for many years. The RN refused for many years to discard its VOCAB numbers because the system it had in place used only them and it would cost too much to replace it (see the mass of diff numbers across RM issued para wings over the years for example), the RAF used it's 22C code for flying clothing and again, for years, refused to replace that, and the Army appears to change it's systems regularly (OLIVER, ASTRID, AMANDA, Stores System 2, to mention but a few) but still hasn't quite mastered it all.

Certainly these days NSN's in full appear on the outer packaging of badges and frequently on the back of modern badges as stickers. The packaging markings and/or bar codes required under "DEFCON 129 Packaging" seem to conflict slightly to my mind, but package marking:

(1) description of the Article;
(2) the full thirteen digit NATO Stock Number (NSN);
(3) the PPQ;
(4) maker's part / catalogue, serial and / or batch number, as appropriate;
(5) the Contract and order number when applicable;

and for bar coded:

Bar code marking shall be applied to the external surface of each consignment package and to each PPQ package contained therein. The default symbology shall be as specified in Def Stan 81-041 (Part 6). As a minimum the following information shall be marked on packages:
a. the full 13-digit NSN;
b. denomination of quantity (D of Q);
c. actual quantity (quantity in package);
d. manufacturer's serial number and / or batch number, if one has been allocated;

I'm going to go and lay down in a darkened room now. I did ask a long serving WO1 what system the Army used before NSN's and he was completely stumped. I do know that in the early 80's Manufacturers part numbers were frequently used for demands.

Ian H

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is an example of the Sealed Standard Pattern for WO1 WRAC

Tim

[grey_green_acorn]

Sealed Standard Pattern WO1 AAC and SASC
NOT 22 SAS as has been wrongly annotated

Tim

[Shiny]

Thanks a lot everyone, this is great.

Michael

[Paddy]

Hello All

As you can see from the attached link this style was also worn by the Royal Marines for a period of time. I have never seen a colour picture of it in use so do not know what colour the outline should be, does anyone have any idea?

http://www.rmhistorical.com/DAPShowF...ocation=images

Many thanks

Paddy

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Paddy

As you can see from the attached link this style was also worn by the Royal Marines for a period of time. I have never seen a colour picture of it in use so do not know what colour the outline should be, does anyone have any idea?
Paddy

Personally I do not have that pattern recorded for wear by the Royal Marines, maybe I missed it. Possibly the wrong badge being worn. Maybe as Infantry the border is red or scarlet.

Marc

[Paddy]

Marc

That was pretty much what I was thinking as well as this is probably the only picture I've seen it in and I've never seen it mentioned in documentation. There were plans for the RM to use the brown on green woven chevrons worn by the army. They were due to be fully available for NCO's by 1st Jan 1981 and WOs by 1st Jan 1984 (RMRO 29/1980). This decision was rescinded by RMRO 30/1983 before WOs were supposed to start wearing them and the RM reverted back to black on green. Maybe this style of badge was worn for a short period of time around the early 1980s.

Paddy