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  #1  
Old 22-09-22, 06:37 AM
Phill Lockett's Avatar
Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Default Latest SAS Beret Badge

Hi team

I would like opinions on these SAS Winged Daggers and time period.

These were sold down here as NZSAS 1980's but they are not Kiwi made more British made.

The backing of the first one has an adhesive backed and the second has paperbacked.

Both are silk embroidered.

cheers

Phill
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  #2  
Old 22-09-22, 11:32 AM
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3battalion 3battalion is offline
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Phill, your first badge looks WW2 to me. The second one is post war most likely from 60's on.

Paul
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  #3  
Old 22-09-22, 06:30 PM
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Hi Paul

Thanks for the reply.

I do have a WWII 1944 pattern SAS winged dagger from Steve "Arestingu" for comparison asnd a 21 Artist Arm badge from late 40's.

Heres my observation on both and by all means if Im wrong guys please correct me.

I use the above to as comparisons as it were for dates of manufacture and possible use.

In my collection I have Formation signs from WWII and post WWII with the adhesive backing. Post WWII has it on the openweave black mesh and not on the formation sign which ,to me, WWII era formation signs have.

The post WWII adhesive backing I have have been documented to the late 1940's and 50's on BBF.

Note the black lines that touch the dagger on both sides and how slim the wing is , to date all of what I have seen on 1944 pattern winged daggers are "wider wings and the black line do not touch the dagger.

The second wing design has more in comparison to a 1944 pattern but the folded felt edge has been sewn to the back (professionally done may I add cannot see stitches on front) but again post WWII SAS badges have that black paperbacking.

The 3rdexample is one I have discussed is was worn by NZSAS during the late 50's-60's , which is British made not the paper backing.

So I look on both and won these as 1950's-60's winged daggers and not WWII.

Would I love them to be WWII , hell yeah ,but above are my observations and would love more opinions as you guys have collected and done more research than I have on the subject matter.

cheers Paul and your collections is looking outstanding every time I see them , take care friend.

Phill
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  #4  
Old 23-09-22, 10:51 AM
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Hi Phill,

Some interesting observations on the 1944 pattern and the black wing highlight touching the blade. I do note that earlier war badges had the black line touching the blade but it seems, as you've noted, they stopped this detail in later badges. I don't know about mid-war badges and I still try and go on the lettering and construction to guide my judgement of a badge's vintage. I also have a reference of all the badges seen in collections and use this as a comparison to help guide my assesment - makes it easier! The badge I noted as being WW2 vintage, and doesn't have the lines touching the blade, you believe this a post WW2 badge becaue of the backing and width of the wings?

Thanks for comments on the collection, it's a work in progress.

Paul
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  #5  
Old 25-09-22, 08:51 AM
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Hello Phill,

The first cap badge is 100% wartime. It's a type commonly worn by the Belgians.
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Des
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  #6  
Old 25-09-22, 09:04 AM
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Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Thank you for confirming Des

That is a very nice surprise.

I was also told it was used by the French as well.

Paul you were on the money suggesting wartime issue thankyou my friend.

cheers

Phill
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  #7  
Old 25-09-22, 11:12 AM
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I nice addition to your collection Phill.

Paul
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  #8  
Old 24-10-22, 09:35 PM
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Default Nice badges mate

One has to agree that the first pattern is WW2. I do like that pattern.
I have never seen a paper covered version with what looks like a wrap a round of cloth?
Its not wartime IMO. BUt nice nonetheless.
Great profs.
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  #9  
Old 24-10-22, 11:51 PM
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why would there be a special pattern produced for exile personnel ? is there a paper trail which confirms the statement ?
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  #10  
Old 25-10-22, 06:12 AM
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Phill Lockett Phill Lockett is offline
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Thanks for the comment Jon

Silverwash Im not to sure what you mean, can you elaborate.

Any and all input is good to have.

In post #3,I noted that the first winged dagger as WWII 1944 pattern, however it has been suggested that it is a 1950's-60's variant , I would like more opinions please.

The second is 21 SAS 1947-54 Formation sign.

The 3rd is British made and worn by NZ SAS 1955's-60's.

cheers

Phill
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  #11  
Old 25-10-22, 10:03 AM
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Default Clarification

Hi Silverwash.
There’s no suggestion Sit that the pattern of any SAS capbadge was manufactured for specific units of the Brigade.
It’s just that through various collections there tends to be a common denominator in the types worn that have been obtained from veterans.
Very much like one can tell a specific infantry battalion by a capbadge that has a lack of battle honours. There may not be a paper trail but it’s accepted by collectors
(The infantry analogy is merely that-I’ve no example to give)
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JonQUOTE=silverwash;589821]why would there be a special pattern produced for exile personnel ? is there a paper trail which confirms the statement ?[/QUOTE]
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  #12  
Old 25-10-22, 10:45 PM
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it follows then as there was no specific exile pattern the design and colour could be the result of a manufacturing quirk and supply issue.
whilst on the subject of SAS, going off tangent, did any SAS men survive to be European POW's ?
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