British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Other Commonwealth Military Insignia > New Zealand Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-11-22, 11:33 PM
ukbrits ukbrits is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: kent, England
Posts: 537
Default Featherston Camp Trumpet band opinions please

Hi Gents,
I have a Featherston Camp badge which I need an opinion on it's authenticity please.
It does appear to be different from Geoffrey Oldham's badge in his booklet -
Military badges of New Zealand.
The voiding on the crown does appear to be completely different than the one in his book.
This one does seem to have 2 small holes for the voiding in the crown which makes me suspicious
I would like to know if it's a dud or a reunion piece or a genuine badge.
Many Thanks in advance
Colin
Attached Images
File Type: jpg f1.jpg (74.6 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg f2.jpg (67.1 KB, 50 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-11-22, 03:37 AM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 3,079
Default

Hi Colin,
I think this is a modern fake.
Cheers,
John
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-11-22, 07:57 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

I am not so sure, it could be the badge has been chemically cleaned and just looks new.

I have pictures that show 3 different types of lugs used on the FCTB badges and am leaning to there being two variations.
The brass FCTB badges have a 957 RD number and the silver FCTB badges have a 958 RD number.

This is not my badge but looks similar to the one pictured.
IMG_2199.jpgIMG_2200.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-11-22, 06:35 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 3,079
Default

Here is my badge with loops for comparison. As Brent has said there are variations.
Cheers, John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TrumpetBand.jpg (59.8 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg TrumpetBandrev.jpg (41.5 KB, 23 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23-11-22, 10:30 AM
milcollectorblue milcollectorblue is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lee-on-the-Solent, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 165
Default RD Numbers

Hi John,
I've taken onboard what Brent mentioned and have tried 'exploding' the photos of your badge but am unable to see any RD Number on the reverse of the trumpet horn. Does it have one?
Also, your badge quite clearly shows what I'd describe as the correct void space on the crown whereas the badge Colin showed in his original post merely had what appears to be 2 small holes drilled in the crown. In part that is what led me to believe it was a copy when he and I discussed the badge. (Colin's badge did appear to have a RD number though, but I was unable to discern what it was).
All-in-all it's a bit of a minefield, especially when it comes to the uncommon (and therefore hard-to-find) badges .
Regards,
Lovat
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23-11-22, 11:16 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milcollectorblue View Post
Hi John,
I've taken onboard what Brent mentioned and have tried 'exploding' the photos of your badge but am unable to see any RD Number on the reverse of the trumpet horn. Does it have one?
Also, your badge quite clearly shows what I'd describe as the correct void space on the crown whereas the badge Colin showed in his original post merely had what appears to be 2 small holes drilled in the crown. In part that is what led me to believe it was a copy when he and I discussed the badge. (Colin's badge did appear to have a RD number though, but I was unable to discern what it was).
All-in-all it's a bit of a minefield, especially when it comes to the uncommon (and therefore hard-to-find) badges .
Regards,
Lovat
RD numbers on NZ Camp badges are important when it comes to understanding who designed them. However that being said, many original camp badges do not have RD numbers, and are poorly hand finished.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23-11-22, 07:13 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 3,079
Default

Hi Lovat,
My badge has no RD number that I can see.
Regards
John

Quote:
Originally Posted by milcollectorblue View Post
Hi John,
I've taken onboard what Brent mentioned and have tried 'exploding' the photos of your badge but am unable to see any RD Number on the reverse of the trumpet horn. Does it have one?
Also, your badge quite clearly shows what I'd describe as the correct void space on the crown whereas the badge Colin showed in his original post merely had what appears to be 2 small holes drilled in the crown. In part that is what led me to believe it was a copy when he and I discussed the badge. (Colin's badge did appear to have a RD number though, but I was unable to discern what it was).
All-in-all it's a bit of a minefield, especially when it comes to the uncommon (and therefore hard-to-find) badges .
Regards,
Lovat
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24-11-22, 07:29 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

Heres my FCTB badge, sadly its lugs have been replaced.

Just out of interest, there was two Featherston camp bands, one brass band under Bandmaster Wicks, and the Trumpet Band which was made up of NZ Artillery and NZ Mounted Rifles under Trumpet Major Frederick Chegwin.

featherston camp trumpet band Bandsman 2009-06-21 002.jpg
featherston camp trumpet band Bandsman 2009-06-21 007.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25-11-22, 02:10 AM
omok1 omok1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 44
Default

I would have no problems with this badge. As already discussed there are variations. I currently have two in my collection but have owned and sold two or three more over the years. My current ones have differences in the hand cut voiding. One has no voiding in the arch of the crown and other has not been voided either side of the scroll by the trumpet cords. I have had both loops (either brass or copper wire) and hexs like yours, and also the drilling of holes without further cutting out of a small area is rather common on NZ reinfs badges. As mentioned the RD number on this badge is also variable. I mean these guys were in business, had multiple employees and were there to make money. Quality varied greatly with the badges. Nice badge. Just the TCB, CMB and NZMR band badges to get now :-) Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27-11-22, 12:51 AM
atillathenunns's Avatar
atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,431
Default

As mentioned, it is all “a bit of a minefield” when it comes to Reinforcement/Home Service badges, and as Craig has so eloquently put it “these guys (camp jewellers) were in business, had multiple employees and were there to make money.”
Some camp jewellers, long after the end of WW1 continued to supply Reinforcement/Home Service badges for museums and collectors, which makes it almost impossible to separate the original wartime badges from the original post war copies and to a certain point modern copies.

In regards to the RD957 number on the brass FCTB badge and RD958 number on the silver FCTB badge, my records show these were both registered to Trumpet Major Frederick Charles Chegwin, Featherston Military Camp, on the 26th March 1917.

Trumpet Major Chegwin is pictured below with the Featherston Camp Trumpet band, seated front row center. On his left breast he wears the South Africa medal with 1901 clasp, and the Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee medal, and I suspect the medal on the right breast is from his service with the Woolston and Christchurch Garrison Bands.

Chegwin served as a bugler with the NZ 5th Contingent rising to Trumpet Major. During WW1 he was employed by the Home-service Branch, NZEF, attached to HQ Featherston Camp in charge of training trumpeters and buglers.
Private Chegwin entered Tauherenikau camp on the 13th October 1915, he was promoted Trumpet Major on the 22nd December 1915.

Tauherenikau camp is known to have 3 Bands in November 1915, a brass band, a bugle band, and a trumpet band. The Trumpet band was the first of its kind in New Zealand due to Featherston camp being a mounted camp, as such it was entitled to a trumpet band, which was undoubtedly started by Chegwin. All bands were under the command/baton of Bandmaster A. J. Wicks, and the bugle and trumpet band which became Featherston Camp Trumpet Band were under Trumpet Major Chegwin.

The FCTB was comprised of both Reinforcements and Home Service personnel, so would have had an ever changing membership. It appears they were disbanded in December 1918, so the FCTB badge was only in use for 1 year and 9 months, and IMO it was likely only worn on the shoulder straps.

featherston camp trumpet band featherston%20camp%20band.jpg

DOMINION, VOLUME 10, ISSUE 2924, 9 NOVEMBER 1916, PAGE 6
featherston camp trumpet band Bandsman 1.JPG
featherston camp trumpet band Bandsman 2.JPG
featherston camp trumpet band Bandsman 3.JPG
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27-11-22, 06:34 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 3,079
Default

Great research, Brent. Thanks for sharing.
Regards, John
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-12-22, 07:36 PM
ukbrits ukbrits is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: kent, England
Posts: 537
Default

Hi Gents,
Yes great research Brent and thanks to everyone for contributing on
this most interesting thread. The badge in qestion is available for sale if
any Forum members are interested in purchasing it.
Many Thanks
Colin
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:51 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.