Tyneside Scottish opinions please.

[grey_green_acorn]

Chris,
If you look closely it is CB 1380 not 4380.

Tim

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Chris,
If you look closely it is CB 1380 not 4380.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

Getting old...

Note that the first CB number for an A/A cap badge was CB 3000 so the card, being created in 1955 (A/A era), really should have said CB 3335 although it was acceptable practice to use and existing non A/A badge to 'act as a guide' for A/A usage.

Regards

chris

[tynesideirish]

Well, this has been concluded of sorts, some hard graft and showing how seriously most of us take this hobby. It isn't just acquiring badges but knowledge. I applaud you all. It seems we were all right and all wrong. The answer was staring us in the face as we all knew the dates didn't add up.

Phew. I also concur that I'm glad this thread was handled in a friendly way. These things often spiral into bitterness and factions but not this time.

Chris, I'm glad your card was kosher after all, even if officially misleading.

[Charlie585]

Hi Gents,

I too am glad to see that this discussion appears to have ended satisfactorily for all concerned and I'm sure that more than a few of us have learned a thing or two along the way.

The discussion has highlighted an anomaly with regard to the sequencing of sealed patterns that is in my opinion noteworthy and will, now it has come to light, be of benefit to current and future researchers.

To those foot soldiers that are willing and able to commit the time and effort required to search out, record, and thus preserve these historical records, as well as sharing their findings with us, it is appreciated! You do the hobby a great service and to have an example such as this played out openly and constructively - although I admit to wobbling once or twice - does credit to the forum.

Good show!

Ry

[hagwalther]

I thought this was a pretty good thread.

I still want to know though how common was the practice of retrospectively creating pattern cards because I had never heard about this sort of practice before.

Regards

Chris

[Charlie585]

Chris,

I would to think that the practice wasn't common at all and that it was most likely carried out if necessary at times of reorganisation - circa WW2.

Possibly less likely in the early war years when units were being re-roled into the corps and more likely post war at the time of re-org circa 1947.
I would assume that the need to do so would only arise when a unit was re-roled but retained links to its former identity and traditions via its insignia. Maybe a avenue for someone to follow there!

The other ocassion would I suppose be a change of material as noted within this thread.

I imagine that the practice of the time with regard to the recording of SP cards was governed by the needs of the day and was achieved as simply as possible. I very much doubt that a thought was spared for the likes of us future collectors / historians, as long as everything tallied and made sense at the time.
Without wishing to ruffle any feathers, I would say that this is a fair reason possibly not to always believe statements from organisations that weren't the originators of the material at the time of its production without checking for yourself, no matter how good their reputation or intent.

Ry

[Silver Tourist]

Good afternoon.

From Mr Stewart's posting of 21 November 2012:

"Norman was both a collector and dedicated researcher and published three great works - "The Militia Artillery"; "The Volunteer Artillery" and the "Territorial Artillery" as previously mentioned. A great man, who was well respected in his field.

J.B.M. Frederick was an Academic, whose didn't collect, but published a massive work on the lineage of the British Army, which covered two large volumes - "Lineage Book of British Land Forces, 1660-1978"( Biographical outlines of Cavalry, Yeomanry, Artillery, Infantry, Marines and Air Force Land Troops of the Regular and Reserve Forces). A single volume of which was dedicated to the Royal Artillery.

Sadly both had died by the time the Armouries was completed and although they didn't chase "the badge", as in your case for your records - they chased "the unit" and spent all of their spare time with War Office/MOD Archives, which were later transferred to our National Archive, as well as using other sources."


I would suggest Forum Member Mr Stewart makes a minor error in his posting above. The Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds opened to the public on 30 March 1996. If memory serves me correctly I attended one of the various official opening Ceremonies.

However, Norman Litchfield died in October 2005 by which time The Armouries Museum was long completed. I attended his funeral at All Saints' Parish Church, Ockbrook, Derbyshire on 28 October 2005. A most excellent Address was given by The Rev`d Robin McDowell.

Norman was more than aware of the sources of information on the badges of The Royal Artillery!

Those Members with a serious interest in Royal Artillery insignia should, in addition to the titles cited by Mr Stewart, obtain copies of Norman's privately published pamphlets, "Uniform Insignia of the Royal Regiment of Artillery: Metal Shoulder Titles." July 2003; and, "Uniform Insignia of the Royal Regiment of Artillery:Pagri Badges." January 2004.

His collection of metal shoulder titles was dispersed privately before his death. The balance of his monumental Collection was dispersed through Dix Noonan Webb's Salerooms in their Sales of 29 June 2006, and 14 December 2006. The latter included his beloved Collection of pagri badges to Artillery units. I would commend the Catalogues of each Sale to those interested in Artillery insignia.

Enjoy.

S.T.

[Packhow75]

Originally Posted by Alan O

I thought members might like to see this photo of a 1940 sealed pattern card.

The WW2 badge was the 3rd pattern design and was lugged.

New here... and my first post... having been drawn to the forum as a result of research into this particular Cap Badge.

I have the same Sealed Pattern card... though mine lacks the 1940 date... but does have a 1958 ink stamp to the rear.

How many of these Standard Patterns are likely to exist? Is this a rare item to have.

Whilst I have a variety of Cap Badges in my collection, this is not an area of expertise.

Edit - herewith the SP Card in my collection... I recognise am trawling up an old post, but it seems more appropriate to me to add to this one, than start another.

Scottish-Tyneside-1.jpg

Scottish-Tyneside-2.jpg

Cheers

Tim

[yorkstone]

A very interesting thread mine are both broached and appear to be 1915 Patten badge on the right much thicker construction possible nickel silver can not find a hall mark any where.

Would appreciate comments on the pair date range to put them into.

Regards to all
Stephen