Royal Welsh Fusiliers

[41st]

I note that some RWF badges have appeared on another thread in response to the number of flames to the grenade, but thought that they deserve a home of their own.
I'll start with some Officers' pre 1920 cap badges.
1.Two part Silver & Gilt 'sh' spelling.
2.Rear of the above showing loop fastening to top and blade, now missing, to the bottom. Also interesting to note that on the older badges the gilding is only to the front of the badge.
3.Another two part Silver & Gilt variant, 'sh' spelling.
4.Reverse of the above showing different fixing to title overlay and two loop fastening behind the flames.

[41st]

Some OSD bronze verions pre 1920 with 'sh' spelling.
1.The standard two part pointed flame version.
2.Rear of the above showing conversion to pin fixing from blades, possibly for sweetheart brooch, and makers mark 'J&Co'-Jennens.
3.The flat flamed version.
4.Reverse showing different method of fixing to the title overlay and large flat blades, one broken off and awaiting refixing.

[41st]

Volunteer Officers' example.
1.One piece cast example to the 2nd V.B with 'ch' spelling. Worn upto 1908.
2.Reverse of the above .

[Bantam]

Hi,
I agree with 41st that The Welsh Fusiliers should have a home of thier own.
I had posted these under another thread Officers Service Dress SH and CH spellings.I believe this may have been worn by Officers of TheTerritorial Battalions ?
Regards
Bantam

[Toby Purcell]

What a fantastic collection from my old Regiment. Thank you both. I have never seen some of these, especially a third (OR flat flamed type) OSD Bronze circa WW1 and the Bi-metal Officers Forage Cap. The first Bronze OSD (with pointed top) was the one used throughout my service and was I imagine standardised at some stage between the wars.

I have one badge I have never been able to identify. It is OR type all brass but smaller than the economy issue and with an extra long slider. The back is slightly concave but solid and without any indentation at all, although the front is clearly die struck and it is spelled Welsh. I feel it is too well made to be a bazaar made item. A real mystery and unfortunately buried in my attic somewhere.

[Bantam]

Hi Toby,
Thanks for your kind comments I am so glad that you enjoyed them.Will post some more in next day or so.
If you notice 41st Officers 2V.B. badge notice the similarity in flames with the broad flamed badge of my avatar.It is that link that I suspect makes it a territorial officers version.There is also the similarity with The 5th Northumberland Fusiliers Badges.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Hi Toby,
Thanks for your kind comments I am so glad that you enjoyed them.Will post some more in next day or so.
If you notice 41st Officers 2V.B. badge notice the similarity in flames with the broad flamed badge of my avatar.It is that link that I suspect makes it a territorial officers version.There is also the similarity with The 5th Northumberland Fusiliers Badges.

Am not sure what you mean re '41st Officers 2V.B. badge'? If you mean RWF 2V.B. badge that you showed I do not see any similarity with your avatat at all, as the avatar flame, as with the NF and RMF is much wider and spread out. It may well have been used by TF but most of those I have seen seem to be worn by officers of Kitchener's Service battalions. Thanks again for the pics - wonderful!

[Bantam]

Hi Toby,
A little confusion over 41st's that's Kevins sobriquet on the site.I meant 2 V.B. R.W.F.Officers Badge.The flames fan out as opposed to the normal shape.Which made me think that that type was worn either by the territorial and or service battalions rather then the regular battalions ?
Regards
Bantam

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Bantam

Hi Toby,
A little confusion over 41st's that's Kevins sobriquet on the site.I meant 2 V.B. R.W.F.Officers Badge.The flames fan out as opposed to the normal shape.Which made me think that that type was worn either by the territorial and or service battalions rather then the regular battalions ?
Regards
Bantam

Thanks Bantam, yes, I understand now. I think that it is quite possible that you are right as I have never seen an officer from the 2 regular battalions wearing your avatar version of the badge and the regiment was notoriously snobbish about its wartime/hostilities only officers.

[Bantam]

Hi Toby,
I have seen photos of the regular battalions in WW1 and their are all wearing the coventional variaton of the Officers Service Dress Badge.
As a side note my wifes grandfather served as a stretcher bearer in the 9th Battalion R.W.F.1914-18.
Regards Bantam

[41st]

Toby,
I too have a similar all brass smaller 'sh' version which I know nothing about.
I will photograph it and post it for comparison. However, I agree with you that it would appear to be too well made for a bazaar or copy.
Thanks for your earlier response to my unknown 23 badge, I have a few more very early i.e Regency ones, that we believe to be RWF or associated militia and will post these for you to have a look at.
Bantam has identified one as Flintshire.
Cofion,
Kevin

[41st]

This one is one of my favorites. As best we can tell it is thought that it is a Regency period fur cap badge. The quality of the piece is superb and is not done justice by the photographs. Just look at the detail on the feathers.
However, the hard evidence is poor, the only reference I have is to a photo of a painting in the Regiment series magazine for the RWF on page 21 showing an Officer of 1784 wearing a similar front piece. Somewhat earlier I know, but having shown it to Dixon Pickup, he believes it to be from the Regency period.
I will have to see what I can dig up at the museum. Unless of course anyone knows better.
As far as I can tell the RWF did not wear this pattern of badge during the Regency period, rather a large triangular plate on the fur cap.
1.Front showing gilded crown overlay and very well defined feathers. Overall height approx 3 1/4".
2.Rear showing conversion to pin fastening and one remaining retaining wire to front crown.
3.Position of original loops above pin.
4.Side view showing depth of pressing.

[41st]

Officers' fur cap grenades worn circa 1863 onwards.
1.Silver PoW plumes on gilded grenade as worn by Regular Officers.
2.Reverse of the above showing remains of double blade fixing to ball of grenade and screw post to flames. The flames have been reattached to the ball of the grenade at some time in the past.
3.Version worn by Officers of the 3rd Militia Battn. with reversed metals.
4.Reverse of the above showing two screw post fixings.

[41st]

The following patterns are often given as Officers' badges in auction house descriptions, but I believe them to be for senior NCO's. The next post will show why.
1.Regular silver on gilt pattern.
2.Reverse of the above showing two long loop fastenings.
3.Volunteer all white metal version.
4.Reverse of the above showing two long loop fastenings.

[41st]

Following on from the last post this is a Victorian Fur Cap of the O.R's pattern, albeit of very good quality, with the same pattern badge as shown in the last post. It is the only badge that has ever been on it.