Cef cloth repro's

[Bill A]

The vendor from Saskatchewan had listed several lots of reproduction CEF cloth on ebay. They are easily distinguished from the real thing for collectors who have had some experience with CEF cloth, but as always, these will pose a problem to those unfamiliar with cloth and to future collectors.
Of interest, it appears that the vendor has used a recently compiled cloth catalogue and used the images as templates.
Examples of the repros:
PPCLI repro cloth title
CEF Repro Cloth

[Voltigeur]

Hi Bill, well at least he says his items are brand new so, with this stipulation hopefully nobody will be fooled. I said hopefully.... And I'm not talking about the huge quantity of unseen, up to now, 1stWW shoulder titles. But, sometimes I marvel at the ignorance or plain idiocy of people.
Regards
Jo

[Peter Brydon]

I wonder what members will make of this from a web site I found today:

"Welcome to our Cloth Insignia Website"

Monty`s Locker is licensed by the Ministry of Defence to reproduce British WW2 Cloth Insignia.These designs are all registered trademarks of the Secretary of State for Defence and are used under licence.Insignia must not be reproduced without permission ............."

Anybody with any contacts in the MOD to check this out ??

P.B.

[Bill A]

This sounds absolutely bizzare. Why would the MOD waste time and money policing reproductions? More to the point, if they do have judicial authority over reproductions, they have been sadly amiss in their duties.
P.B., I think that this merits a thread in itself?

[guest_000]

Originally Posted by Bill A

The vendor from Saskatchewan had listed several lots of reproduction CEF cloth on ebay. They are easily distinguished from the real thing for collectors who have had some experience with CEF cloth, but as always, these will pose a problem to those unfamiliar with cloth and to future collectors.
Of interest, it appears that the vendor has used a recently compiled cloth catalogue and used the images as templates.
Examples of the repros:
PPCLI repro cloth title
CEF Repro Cloth

WOOPS sorry I just vomited on my flat screen what a mess. This guy has lost his humanity and the greed has totaly taken over his mindset. No wonder he never shows up at the local get togethers in SASKATOON . I am sure he is on this forum under what name I do not know yet but this is what I mean about discussing details about repros and restrikes people like him lurk on these sights and pick up on our intelligence and use it against us in their next batch of junk . That is why I copywrite some of my badges something those posting the high end items in the albums should consider IMO

paul

[Bill A]

Paul, The reference material that the vendor used was not from this forum. Another collector out your way has put together a collector's reference and the images that were used were from that booklet. If you note, none of the cloth that is reproduced has been featured on this forum. When each of the repro'd items are examined, there are significant flaws that easily give them away, and that is without even seeing the backing of these.
There are hundreds of ways to get the information to use for reproductions. The items can be purchased, borrowed, photographed, imaged, scanned etc. Vic Taboika's Military Antiques and Collectables of the Great War illustrates most of the cloth that was repro'd. All of these will provide the reproducer with a template from which the copy can be made. If the information about what makes a badge "good" is not available, the repro artist will have a field day. It is critical that the information about what characteristics make a good badge are available to collectors. Otherwise, we may as well pack it up. There will be no way to determine what is right and what is repro. Information is the tool to defeat the fraudulent reproduction artists.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

I wonder what members will make of this from a web site I found today:

"Welcome to our Cloth Insignia Website"

Monty`s Locker is licensed by the Ministry of Defence to reproduce British WW2 Cloth Insignia.These designs are all registered trademarks of the Secretary of State for Defence and are used under licence.Insignia must not be reproduced without permission ............."

Anybody with any contacts in the MOD to check this out ??

P.B.

Anyone who legaly wants to make and sell, or sell MoD insignia must have a Licence from the MoD to do so. Therefore it is possible that a company has applied for and been granted the said licence, and is useing it to produce what ever they like. Normally the application has to state exactly what you are going to produce and sell but, we all know there are exceptions.

The licence also applies to shops and museums that sell any MoD insignia, but as with most laws who is going to enforce it.

Interlectual Property Licence.

[Bill A]

54BTY, is there not an expiry on such registered trademarks? For example, the Bing Coughlin cartoons were copyrighted during WW2 by the Canadian government, but the copyright had expired after 25 years. (Not a trademark, but similar?)

[guest_000]

Bill my post made no ref to anything coming off this site at all. But that he is probably lurking here among others. And I will say it again and again because some people just don't seem to click in. You should copyright your rarer pictures so they can not be highjacked . When you share info about how to spot fakes especially on newer items just found on the market offer to do it by PM to anyone who is interested . tHESE FORUMS ARE WHERE THE fAKERS LURK to gain experience and knowledge to better their products in order to better fool you on the next run of their product. And if you do not believe that BILL I have a bridge out here over the BATTLE river for sale cheap just for you.

PAUL

[Bill A]

Paul, WE are on the same side, and have been. What differnce does it make if the image comes from here or some other source? The repro artist will find some source to get the information that they need to do the repro. There was fellow from eastern Ontario that made a point of buying scarce badges from Denby's auctions years ago. Then a few months later he was selling repros of the same thing.
I want every collector to be armed with the best possible information to go out and collect. The knowledge and images help collectors determine what it is that is good and what is bad. There is more to be gained by pointing out the reproductions in the proper way, PUBLICALLY than by private messages. Who else will know about the repro's if the info is not made public?
Repro cloth artists can not make the badge exactly the same way as it was made in WW1 or WW2. When they try to do it, they always make mistakes. They can not replicate the material, the embroidery, the style even when they try. The same is true of badge reproduction, but is more difficult to see the differences.
Bottom line, we are all trying to make the repro artists impact on the hobby as limited as possible. Copyrighting images or keeping information private does not stop repro artists.

[guest_000]

Bill we can make it as difficult as possible true we are here to explain promote information but there are details and thing that just should not be discussed openly. I belong to other forums mainly involved in the third reich and see everyday where photos are lifted and used in advertisement in Pakistan and yes photos from this sight have been pirated by a repro manufacturer in PAKISTAN WHO SPECIALIZES in British and GERMAN etc. It is happening a thing I keep an eye on . Yes the con artist make mistakes then we talk about it they listen and they get better next time. You think they are not on this forum Bill listening watching now

[jim a]

How do you post a picture with the word copywrite over it? My skills at photography and moving, editing, cropping etc are not the best yet. this whole question is a dilema... if we don't know what to look for how do we protect ourselves.... but as soon as the info is out the fakers have it to...

[wright241]

Originally Posted by jim a

How do you post a picture with the word copywrite over it? My skills at photography and moving, editing, cropping etc are not the best yet. this whole question is a dilema... if we don't know what to look for how do we protect ourselves.... but as soon as the info is out the fakers have it to...

jim a,
When you process the picture (I use PSP8) you create a copyright symbol on a separate mask and paste it onto the picture image as a "transparent overlay" - rather than "insert" or "into/on" - this way, the darker copyright symbol does not obliterate whats underneath. Very similar to overlaying a clear acetate sheet on top of another, the way modern day SFX are produced.
You would obviously have to create both dark and light versions of the copyright symbol itself.
david

[guest_000]

Jim you are doing the right thing you are asking for help first off what editing program do you use ? Each one has a method of applying a copyright. And if you tell us what system you use I am sure someone on here will give you the directions. I use LVUE PRO which is not very common

And for the BOSSES and idea for a sub forum might be COMPUTER HELP and ideas FORUM

PAUL

[guest_000]

Here is the link to the Pakistani dealer in repo insignia. He is known to hijack pictures from other sights and use them to promote his garbage . We have found several stolen off GERMAN DAGGERs .COM and I think from this sight as he is on here. I encourage members who have albums to go through this sight and see if any of your insignia have been highjacked.

http://www.armuniform.com/polizie/polizieselection.htm