British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Cavalry, Yeomanry, Tank/RAC Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27-06-19, 11:41 AM
ojd's Avatar
ojd ojd is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Quantock Hills, Somerset
Posts: 10
Default QVC 5th Dragoon Guards Badge - Cap or Collar?

Dear All,

I have this QVC badge to the 5th Dragoon Guards, which accompanies a Kings South Africa Medal to a 5DG Trumpeter Lance Corporal, who played kettle drums, centre stage, at the 1903 Delhi Durbar. I have checked your own webpage https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/br...oon_guards.htm, but still not sure if it is a collar or cap badge (and to officer and or other rank)?

In the vertical shot, the badge sits between the 2 and the 8 cm marks.

Grateful for any advice (and thanks),

Owen

Edited to add reply from Lancer 17 (see his post below):

G'day Owen

From your photos its hard to tell weather its a cap or collar and the tape measure really doesn't show. However my QVC 5th DG cap badge is 40 mm high and the QVC collar is 33mm high and both are Bi Metal, that is a Brass/Gilding Metal back ground and with a circular White Metal centre. Both the cap and collar have 2 E - W lugs, yours appears to be all brass and with 2 lugs.

I hope that this helps.

Regards Phil.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5DG 1.jpg (109.1 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg 5DG 2.jpg (107.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 5DG 3.jpg (111.1 KB, 32 views)
__________________
“Keep talking Milligan. I think I can get you out on Mental Grounds.’ ‘That’s how I got in, sir.’ ‘Didn’t we all.”. Spike Milligan, 'Rommel?' 'Gunner Who?'

Last edited by ojd; 27-06-19 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Edited to add reply from Lancer 17 (see his post below)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27-06-19, 11:46 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
Member 2010-21- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 1,459
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ojd View Post
Dear All,

I have this QVC badge to the 5th Dragoon Guards, which accompanies a Kings South Africa Medal to a 5DG Trumpeter Lance Corporal, who played kettle drums, centre stage, at the 1903 Delhi Durbar. I have checked your own webpage https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/br...oon_guards.htm, but still not sure if it is a collar or cap badge (and to officer and or other rank)?

In the vertical shot, the badge sits between the 2 and the 8 cm marks.

Grateful for any advice (and thanks),

Owen
G'day Owen

Please see my reply which is in the For Sale section where you placed the original post.

Regards Phil.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27-06-19, 12:35 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

I think, from the photographs, it is completely spurious.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 27-06-19, 12:43 PM
ojd's Avatar
ojd ojd is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Quantock Hills, Somerset
Posts: 10
Default QVC 5th DG Badge - Cap or Collar?

Thanks Phil, it is the fact that it is not bi-colour that makes me wonder whether it is cap or collar and whilst I note that the Officer version is all brass, the example shown in the link above is for a KC version.

Sorry for the badly composed tape measure pictures - I have added better ones now. My shaky hand measures the badge at 28mm across and 38mm high.

Thanks again,

Owen
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5DG 1.jpg (111.6 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg 5DG 2.jpg (109.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 5DG 3.jpg (111.1 KB, 10 views)
__________________
“Keep talking Milligan. I think I can get you out on Mental Grounds.’ ‘That’s how I got in, sir.’ ‘Didn’t we all.”. Spike Milligan, 'Rommel?' 'Gunner Who?'
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27-06-19, 12:47 PM
ojd's Avatar
ojd ojd is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Quantock Hills, Somerset
Posts: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
I think, from the photographs, it is completely spurious.
Thanks Frank, I must admit I had just assumed it was ok - but, as a novice, can I ask what it is that makes you think it is a fake?

Owen
__________________
“Keep talking Milligan. I think I can get you out on Mental Grounds.’ ‘That’s how I got in, sir.’ ‘Didn’t we all.”. Spike Milligan, 'Rommel?' 'Gunner Who?'
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27-06-19, 01:46 PM
Chipper's Avatar
Chipper Chipper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: France
Posts: 905
Default

Hi,

I will throw my 2c in, and say it is not a cap or collar. It may very well be something else, but not those. The reason I say that is firstly the quality, which seems from the pics to be somewhat lacking. Victorian badges that I have/have seen, are always beautifully struck and finished. I have the cap and collar for the 5th, (attached) and as I say, I am not being definitive, but I have never seen one like yours, ie not bi-metal.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes along to give a more expert opinion, but for me, I am with Frank.

Cheers, Tim

PS as for dimensions, mine are approximately 40mm x 27mm and 32mm x 22mm
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3060.jpg (71.9 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3061.jpg (75.2 KB, 26 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27-06-19, 05:53 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,907
Default

It’s 100% a fake.

The crown doesn’t have jewels it has outlines. The horse looks like Frankenstein and the seeding it’s typically repro.

I’ve never seen a genuine period badge with outlines for jewels. Interestingly however they do appear in Martin Marsh’s catalogue of repro badges.

I would suggest the engraver who made these fake dies was either working from a poor picture or photocopy and only able to make out the shape of the jewels rather than appreciating the should have volume! Either that or it was a deliberate error.

Here it is, number 7 and yours for £4.50 only at 2006 prices.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 23C4587B-EBA3-439F-B89F-D2DCFA2C34E6.jpg (36.0 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg E0F946D4-5C82-48CA-B6D1-1923126A9B0C.jpg (11.3 KB, 27 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27-06-19, 07:14 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

As much as £4.50?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
It’s 100% a fake.

The crown doesn’t have jewels it has outlines. The horse looks like Frankenstein and the seeding it’s typically repro.

I’ve never seen a genuine period badge with outlines for jewels. Interestingly however they do appear in Martin Marsh’s catalogue of repro badges.

I would suggest the engraver who made these fake dies was either working from a poor picture or photocopy and only able to make out the shape of the jewels rather than appreciating the should have volume! Either that or it was a deliberate error.

Here it is, number 7 and yours for £4.50 only at 2006 prices.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27-06-19, 07:21 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

The original badges were manufactured using different materials and methods and were far better in terms of just basic quality, that example is very crude and lacks any detail whatsoever, it is also the wrong colour, die cast badges were silver/gilt in those days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ojd View Post
Thanks Frank, I must admit I had just assumed it was ok - but, as a novice, can I ask what it is that makes you think it is a fake?

Owen
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28-06-19, 12:20 AM
ojd's Avatar
ojd ojd is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Quantock Hills, Somerset
Posts: 10
Unhappy

Well, thank you everyone, I was well and truly duped on this one. But, entirely my fault, for buying with blind faith. Lesson learned.

Owen
__________________
“Keep talking Milligan. I think I can get you out on Mental Grounds.’ ‘That’s how I got in, sir.’ ‘Didn’t we all.”. Spike Milligan, 'Rommel?' 'Gunner Who?'
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 28-06-19, 11:08 AM
ojd's Avatar
ojd ojd is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Quantock Hills, Somerset
Posts: 10
Default

Happy for the Mods to move this to the appropriate thread on copies, re-strikes, fakes and etc.

Thanks,

Owen
__________________
“Keep talking Milligan. I think I can get you out on Mental Grounds.’ ‘That’s how I got in, sir.’ ‘Didn’t we all.”. Spike Milligan, 'Rommel?' 'Gunner Who?'
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28-06-19, 05:10 PM
Keith Blakeman's Avatar
Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Staring into space, just wishing I had a desk.
Posts: 2,949
Default

One thing being overlooked and very obvious, how many die cast bronze QVC badges actually exist?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 29-06-19, 10:25 PM
ojd's Avatar
ojd ojd is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Quantock Hills, Somerset
Posts: 10
Default

Notwithstanding the question being asked by Keith, can I just ask - is it a 'reproduction' of the Officer's badge? Assuming so, as it is not bi-metallic.

Owen
__________________
“Keep talking Milligan. I think I can get you out on Mental Grounds.’ ‘That’s how I got in, sir.’ ‘Didn’t we all.”. Spike Milligan, 'Rommel?' 'Gunner Who?'
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30-06-19, 07:34 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

I certainly did not overlook that, as I said in post 9, it is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
One thing being overlooked and very obvious, how many die cast bronze QVC badges actually exist?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 30-06-19, 07:35 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

It is completely spurious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ojd View Post
Notwithstanding the question being asked by Keith, can I just ask - is it a 'reproduction' of the Officer's badge? Assuming so, as it is not bi-metallic.

Owen
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.