Denbighshire Hussars c1914?

[GriffMJ]

I bought this one yesterday..... I think its right? Location was good "Cwmbran" near Newport in South Wales. The slider looks a bit short to me.... but that could be "placement"? Didnt get a chance to see the back of the badge.... but I will put pics up as soon as I get it.

Denbighshire Yeomanry O/R c1914

[GriffMJ]

Just arrived this morning ...... nice badge My "Welsh Cavalry" collection is building up

[41st]

Griff,
I not totally convinced with the badge you're showing. It looks like it's had a dark brown wash applied rather than bronzed as such.
I've taken another clearer photo of mine for comparison. You can see the the difference in the finish.
Your post also reminded me I was going to put up my Gaunt OSD badge, so here it is.

[davec2]

Nice badges Kev,

Is the O/R's ( I'm assuming that it's O/R's ), identical in finish to the OSD ??

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Hi 41st

As ever there appears to be "three" patterns shown in "the books"

Wilkinson's badge is different in design to Gaylor's and K&K's and vice versa.

My badge looks like Gaylors badge he has illustrated in his book. I have a nice "crimp" in my slider....... and my badge is very clean (soap, water and soft toobrush).

K&K's example has the scrolls "dinged" upwards it appears?

Wilkinson's scrolls and feathers looks like yours but not his coronet? The length of your slider suggests and earlier Puggaree badge?

[41st]

Dave,
The finish is not identical but not far off. I would say it's closer to some older lighter coloured OSD badges I have that could possibly be due to handling over the years.
Kevin

Originally Posted by davec2

Nice badges Kev,

Is the O/R's ( I'm assuming that it's O/R's ), identical in finish to the OSD ??

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Ok..... I think i see what you mean now..... you have a badge that is a bronze metal and does not have an applied finish? My badge is gilding-metal with a bronze laquered finish.

So...... seeing how this badge is identical to Gaylors example.... and K&K say that c1917 there was a "brass economy" version..... do you think that this badge is the brass economy described that has been bronze laquered by the manufacturer (still a bronze looking badge but made in a more economical way)? If you look at Gaylors pic..... you can also see the "chips & scratches" in the finish (his badge shows chips and scratches in more or less the same areas as my badge).

[41st]

Griff,
That's exactly it. Yours looks to have an applied finish.
I understand that the original bronzing was done with a powder as opposed to the modern method that is applied in a wash.
Dave is better placed to advise in this respect.
Kevin

[GriffMJ]

What do you think to my logic about the badge..... and the comparison picture to Gaylor's badge?

BTW Your Officers OSD does not look like the K&K example?

[davec2]

Originally Posted by 41st

Griff,
That's exactly it. Yours looks to have an applied finish.
I understand that the original bronzing was done with a powder as opposed to the modern method that is applied in a wash.
Dave is better placed to advise in this respect.
Kevin

Hi gents,

Griff,

I'm not sure I can tell much from a black and white print taken from a book, you have highlights and as you say, general marks etc, very difficult to say what is what, the original badges were I believe more of bronze metal than a gilding metal ( I don't know the properties ) but they were still coated.

I'm led to believe that original bronze badges were powder coated and then heated, this would explain why although the finish can be rubbed back it takes some elbow grease, it's a far more resiliant finish.

Whether that was the same application used on the more modern productions I can't say, I personally use chemicals ( taken from the gun trade ), which as Kevin points out, is referred to as a bronze wash, although once set with Jade Oil and cured properly, it is quite a strong finish but it is easier to remove.

I will add and I'm open to correction but the finish on the one you are showing does look like it's come out of a tin ?? ouch, sorry, just my thoughts..

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hi gents,

Griff,

I will add and I'm open to correction but the finish on the one you are showing does look like it's come out of a tin ?? ouch, sorry, just my thoughts..

Dave.

Dave

Thats ok.... i did recognise the badge as a "coated" badge before buying it..... but its identicle to Gaylors book in everyway. I think that its the "economy" version.

[davec2]

Hello again Griff,

I have to wonder if a lot of badges are coated/painted just for show, a long time ago, I bought the badge highlighted, it was blackened with what I do not know, it had one and a half out of three blades on it and I decided to repair it, when I put a flame to it, it went up like a gunpowder flash, frightened the bloody life out of me and in those days, I worked in the kitchen.........oops !! see pic now....http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MILITARY-BADGE...item2a07a6fe6e

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Dave

I can only think that its a 1970's repro..... its very "arts & crafts" looking. Dont think an Officer could get away with that badge..... the Colonel would invite him for an interview "without coffee" if he saw that in his bonse!

[GriffMJ]

Further to the badge below:-

(As shown in Gaylors Book) K&K also have this badge listed in Vol.1, its on page 357 Fig. 1433 :-
The Denbighshire Yeomanry (Hussars)
(1) The Prince of Wales's Plumes, coronet & motto. In bronze (Fig.1433)."Also a brass economy pattern" worn c. 1917.

Also, K&K have this badge listed in Vol.2; its on page 143 Fig. 1433 :-
Denbighshire Yeomanry
(1) The Prince of Wales's Plumes, coronet & motto. In "bronzed brass".

Obviously meaning "bronze coated" gilding-metal, they give no dates for the badge in Vol.2 and give a date of c1917 in Vol.1.... it has to be pre 1921 as a new cap badge was made for the 61st (Carnarvon & Denbigh Yeomanry) MR,RA. The implication here is that there are two badges for the Great War..... one in "true bronze" and one in an economy "coated bronze".



I believe the badge illustrated below is the badge shown in Wilkinson's book (Cav' 1914) page 31 fig.130...... is the earlier, pre 1917, "actual" bronze metal badge. They are two different badges in "design & metal".... and covered, again in K&K, by one reference number KK1433. Exactly in the same way that K&K bundle three different LYPAO "dateable designs" into KK1424 in both Vol.1 & 2 (a bit misleading to the collector).


So, in summary, the above two badges cover the DH Other Ranks for the Great War.

[41st]

GRiff,
You could be onto something there.
Kevin