Makers mark - GROVE MFG B'HAM

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Mike

I just been looking at that thead you linked to and I did find a reference to the company in the LG (mind playing tricks on me sorry about that)

Name of Company: THE GROVE MANUFACTURING
COMPANY LIMITED.
Nature of Business: BUTTON MANUFACTURERS.
Address of Registered Office: 46 Cherry Street,
Birmingham.
Liquidator's Name and Address: Eric Frederick Lea
James, 46 Cherry Street, Birmingham.
Date of Appointment: 17th December 1962.

By whom Appointed: Members.

chill out now - company existed probably in the right time period- half the battle

Sounds good to me. I will cancel the "visit".

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Luke Halls

Alan,

I have a GviR RASC which has a grove mgf b'ham mark and I'm positive it is genuine. Think I may even have posted a picture on here sometime when I saw the maker wasn't mentioned on the makers mark page.

Found it http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...s+marks&page=4
its quite a late badge as the crown sits proud of the order of the garter, late 40's early 50's perhaps?

Luke

Luke,

That badge is definately post war and looks genuine. Unfortunately for the HG badges the mark is different to the one shown on the Warcs badges. The font is smaller and better defined and there is a full stop. The second attachment is from another post of an Int Corps badge but is clearer.

I ama way from home at the moment but I think that Grove may have made a/a badges in the 1950s.

If the Liquidaters were appointed in 1962, then that gives a end of production date - the $100 question is when were they set up?
Alan

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Luke,

That badge is definately post war and looks genuine. Unfortunately for the HG badges the mark is different to the one shown on the Warcs badges. The font is smaller and better defined and there is a full stop.

Alan

Alan,

I didn't make any comment on the authenticity of the first two badges shown, and without full pictures am not inclined to. I merely disagreed with the statement that the Grove MFG B'HAM mark only appears on repro badges and is from the same stable as the duff WD marks.

I fully agree with your comments on the quality of the marks on the Warcs compared to the RASC as well as the dates involved.

Luke

[Alan O]

Luke,

Sorry for not being clearer - I should have differentiated between the 2 marks. About 2 years ago was at the Charing Cross Collectors fair and a 'dealer' had a load of maker marked repro badges with varying obscure makers' names and all in this font. they had been stuck on fake WW1/WW2 and VB badges. There was also dodgy Marples and Beasley and Butler, Victoria Street ones which had a different sized typeface but the standard of the inscription was the same.

On a more promising note

http://www.jamesgroveandsons.co.uk/index1.htm

(according to their legal bit I can only copy this link and nothing else on to another website)
This company still exists as Button makers? Same trade and surname and both in B'ham but with different addresses only 8 miles apart? Coincidence?

Alan

[Mike H]

Cherry St in Birmingham is in the city centre.The building probaly still stands but is used for other purposes.
Im pretty sure that above the Firmins factory door there is the Grove name along with some of the other companies that Firmins took over.

[Mike]

whose are these images? I want to stick 'em next to the other two.

Alan:
That badge is definately post war and looks genuine. Unfortunately for the HG badges the mark is different to the one shown on the Warcs badges. The font is smaller and better defined and there is a full stop. The second attachment is from another post of an Int Corps badge but is clearer.


I ama way from home at the moment but I think that Grove may have made a/a badges in the 1950s.

If the Liquidaters were appointed in 1962, then that gives a end of production date - the $100 question is when were they set up?
Alan
0a63_1.jpg (33.8 KB, 5 views) grove 1950s.jpg (22.5 KB, 4 views)

[Alan O]

The RASC one is Luke Halls and is on an earlier post.
The other one was posted here http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ighlight=grove by Luc.
I have had a look on the Firmin website and they list Smith and Wright and Gaunts as companies that they have taken over but not Grove.

Alan

[Sonofacqms]

I would have liked to have seen the front of these badges, they must be rare as I have never seen any illustrated in any books, or badge auction catalogues, K & K and Gaylor do not mention them, whether they are illustrated in the book on home front badges I do not know. I have seen the Vickers Armstrong H.G. badge and have never been sure whether this is not a fantasy item. Does any forum member have any ideas?

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

I would have liked to have seen the front of these badges, they must be rare as I have never seen any illustrated in any books, or badge auction catalogues, K & K and Gaylor do not mention them, whether they are illustrated in the book on home front badges I do not know. I have seen the Vickers Armstrong H.G. badge and have never been sure whether this is not a fantasy item. Does any forum member have any ideas?

Its definitely not a fantasy item. I had a genuine Vickers Armstrong HG badge. I sold it via Wallis & Wallis. I always thought it was a fake as it not very well finished and completely flat at the back and with 2 lugs. It turned out to be the real McCoy and sold well. If you send me a picture I'll let you know whether its good or not. If anyone has kept the W&W catalogs from the early 90's, you will find a good description in there of the badge I sold.
david

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Luke,

That badge is definately post war and looks genuine. Unfortunately for the HG badges the mark is different to the one shown on the Warcs badges. The font is smaller and better defined and there is a full stop. The second attachment is from another post of an Int Corps badge but is clearer.

I ama way from home at the moment but I think that Grove may have made a/a badges in the 1950s.

If the Liquidaters were appointed in 1962, then that gives a end of production date - the $100 question is when were they set up?
Alan

Alan,
So where does this leave my badges with a makers mark that has no full stop - if the 2 that were shown are definitely genuine (i.e. with stop) the implication is that "no stop" means mine are fakes, unless someone else can find a badge deemed to be genuine - but which does not have a "stop".
I have already been in contact with the seller and appraised him of the situation. Here are the backs of the badges. To me, the badges look ok from the back; joints are exactly what I would expect.
Rgds, david

[Alan O]

David,

You need to ask a specialist HG collector or auction house. personally I find it odd that this company used a different mark (actually any mark at all) in WW2 than it did post war. Also why do you not find this mark on normal RWarcs badges but only on 2 obscure HG badges? If I was a HG commander who wanted some individual badges then I would just add the numerals/letters to the standard issued badge from the usual WD sources- considering they were both car makers they must have had the tools sets available!

I remain sceptical but until I can prove otherwise I cannot say for certain.

Alan

[dubaiguy]

David/Alan

As an example if you look on page 32 of Bosleys Bidwyze (Military) there is a sold Northamptonshire staybrite with the makers mark GROVE MFG. B'HAM unfortunately David it has the full stop after the MFG.
Mark

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Luke,


I ama way from home at the moment but I think that Grove may have made a/a badges in the 1950s.

If the Liquidaters were appointed in 1962, then that gives a end of production date - the $100 question is when were they set up?
Alan

Hi Guys,

I'm working on my Manufactures and Makers Marks chapter at the moment and have come up with this Northamptonshire Regiment anodised aluminium cap badge which may be of interest.

Regards

Chris

[Alan O]

Chris,

Many thanks for that. Again the full stop is present. The a/a Northants would put it in the 1950s as well.

Alan

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Chris,

Many thanks for that. Again the full stop is present. The a/a Northants would put it in the 1950s as well.

Alan

Hi Alan,

Yes, full stop is after the MFG part of the makers mark.

Regards

Chris