19th Hussars (The Elephant Family).

[Robthereiver]

Hello Leigh

I think you've done OK, it looks good IMO. I have one very similar that has been pin Brooched, possibly for Sweetheart etc.

Rob

[leigh kitchen]

Phew - it looked ok to me, but from images on a phone and I didn't have time to "research".

[Luke H]

I’m not so sure.

Voiding on the tail doesn’t appear to go high enough IMO. Also the voiding in between the forelegs, on genuine examples it goes into a very crisp upside down ‘V’ where the legs cross, on fakes it’s less crisp and there’s almost a flat edge to it.

I like that it’s a deep strike with thick edges however look at Rockapes post #62 in this thread. A fake with 3 loops also appears very deeply struck.

But devils advocate, why brooch a fake badge? And the traces of braze look to be in correct position for a genuine badge.


Cheers,
Luke

[leigh kitchen]

I thought I might be crowing a bit too soon - I'll have to check through the various threads etc when I can.
Brooching could always be just another touch of "fake authenticity".
I'll see what it looks like in hand.

[Alan O]

Staistically this should be a very rare badge as it was only worn for 4 years from 1898-02 and then the regt returned to UK and swopped their slouch hats for badgeless pill boxes until they adopted khaki peaked caps with the Danneborg Cross badge in the second half of the decade.

There are lots of fakes of this and this thread shows examples of modern ones. However I have my suspicions that the sheer volume of 'dealer-endorsed genuine' ones suggests that the original dies were used to restrike examples that are now indistinguishable from the few genuine examples that may exist.

It's telling that the 19th Hussar elephant is so much easier to get hold compared to the other QVC Cavalry cap badges.

[leigh kitchen]

The "old" problem - in the absence of known tells on a badge to indicate a copy genuine age to a piece becomes authenticity.

[Drmiggy]

Please see my single scroll 19th PWO. Any opinions on the authenticity?

[leigh kitchen]

The badge I show in post no. 141 is slightly different from others, both genuine and not genuine in this and other threads. Its not from the same die as any of those.
A good point of comparison with other examples of the badge is the crease pattern on the elephants cheek, below the ear. There are other points to compare including the size and shape of the ear, but that cheek crease pattern is the most obvious yay or nay when comparing.
It took a while and I'd just about given up googling examples of the badge when I found a front view of this Dead Spartan offering (I'd found a view of the reverse but it was inconclusive).
What do you reckon, same die? Good or bad?

https://www.deadspartan.co.uk/shop.p...20#prettyPhoto

[Drmiggy]

OK, I know that this has been asked a million times, but just for my sanity - are these restrikes or genuine. I was given the double scroll by a 16/5 lancer about 25 years ago, who said his dad gave him it.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Drmiggy

OK, I know that this has been asked a million times, but just for my sanity - are these restrikes or genuine. I was given the double scroll by a 16/5 lancer about 25 years ago, who said his dad gave him it.

Definitely fake sorry.
Cheers,
Luke

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

The badge I show in post no. 141 is slightly different from others, both genuine and not genuine in this and other threads. Its not from the same die as any of those.
A good point of comparison with other examples of the badge is the crease pattern on the elephants cheek, below the ear. There are other points to compare including the size and shape of the ear, but that cheek crease pattern is the most obvious yay or nay when comparing.
It took a while and I'd just about given up googling examples of the badge when I found a front view of this Dead Spartan offering (I'd found a view of the reverse but it was inconclusive).
What do you reckon, same die? Good or bad?

https://www.deadspartan.co.uk/shop.p...20#prettyPhoto

The link doesn’t work for me. I always find it hard to tell from Robbie’s scans... do you mean the nelly with half a tail or the one with its tail raised like its about to poop?

[Drmiggy]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Definitely fake sorry.
Cheers,
Luke

Thanks Luke, any view on the single scroll Nellie at post 149?

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by Luke H

The link doesn’t work for me. I always find it hard to tell from Robbie’s scans... do you mean the nelly with half a tail or the one with its tail raised like its about to poop?

That's it, the one with the flicked up tail (code 64550), looks like it's the same die as the one I showed.
And now I've seen it the half a tail one too (code 55376), looks like the same die again.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Drmiggy

Thanks Luke, any view on the single scroll Nellie at post 149?

Not one I’d have in my collection.

From the black colour it appears to have been chemically aged, the voiding between nelly’s tusks and forelegs isn’t as crisp as I’d expect from an original. The tail void doesn’t appear to go high enough or again be crisp enough. Lastly the loops seems to be too high up. Genuine ones I’ve seen are looped lower - see Mike’s in post #137.

Cheers,
Luke

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

That's it, the one with the flicked up tail (code 64550), looks like it's the same die as the one I showed.
And now I've seen it the half a tail one too (code 55376), looks like the same die again.

I was just about to say that. They look identical, but, then again it’s so hard to tell.

Well they both have nice toned black loops that are growing out of the badge (no feet), nice yellow braze. Said loops are also in the accepted correct position... maybe looking good after all?