Neat 7th Anti Tank Regt. RCA Battledress

[Michael Reintjes]

Just a really cool 7th AT RCA (1st Corps) Battledress jacket attributed to G5024 Gnr Graham F. Forrest of Fredericton New Brunswick. Looks like Forrest was an original enlistee of 104 Battery. Forrest was nice enough to leave a wonderful name and unit number inside the pocket. Another really neat thing is that he replaced his buttons with Italian composition buttons I imagine he acquired when the regt served in the Italian campaign. Just a great Time capsule type BD that I thought some might like to see.

[Bill A]

Nice tunic Mike. Note the mix of insignia. Canvas 7 AT, the melton 1 Cdn Corps AGRA patches, with the double thunder bolts, artificer's badge and the Second World War era rank stripes.

[edstorey]

Yes, a very nice BD indeed!

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by Bill A

the melton 1 Cdn Corps AGRA patches, with the double thunder bolts

Is that really what they are? Clive's book on distinguishing patches cites First Canadian Army orders as describing the badges as having a "zig-zag" pattern.

I'm just curious if the pattern was really intended to portray a thunderbolt, or if this is "collector's terminology". The patches were, I presumed, a successor to the artillery patches of the Canadian Corps, which were similarly described in contemporary accounts as a "jagged line".

The thunderbolt has generally been associated in military symbology with signals units (the R.C.C.S. cap badge is a good example, or even Wehrmacht signaller's trade badges for another).

Not trying to be sticky on this point, just genuinely curious why you refer here to them as "thunderbolts".

Admittedly, Clive's book doesn't directly quote the sources he cites in some cases, but paraphrases, in a way it seems that the terminology is a direct quote.

I double-checked with Falconer's BATTERY FLASHES, and interestingly, a written description of the RCA formation patches doesn't appear, except on page 468, almost as a footnote, when Falconer quotes a letter he received from DHist, Ottawa:

"With regard to formation patches, they are as described by you including the 1st Corps RCA patch...There were no Armoured Brigade Groups. We have no knowledge of a black horizontal diamond patch with red zig-zag. Artillery 2 Corps wore a blue diamond with a red zig-zag."

Emphasis is mine. The illustration that Falconer uses of the 1st Corps RCA patch also shows the ends of the "zig-zag" closed, unlike Michael's example, above, so no "thunderbolts", but rather, a single blue-outline of a "zig-zag".

Incidentally, also, both Falconer and Law show three different patches for high level Canadian artillery formations in the Second World War - one listed as being for AGRA (red diamond with blue bar horizontal and red zig-zag), and then two different patches for the corps artillery (a red diamond with blue zig-zag for 1st corps and a blue diamond with red zig-zag for 2nd Corps). AGRA and Corps artillery were two different things...

[48th]

Great BD, thanks for posting. I love to see items like this.

[Bill A]

Hello Michael, The term comes from the use of the jagged line (not a zig zag) on the artillery formation patches of the FWW. The jagged line represented the sound of thunder which was simplified to a zig zag.
My confusion between 1 AGRA and 2 AGRA with the 1 Cdn Corps RCA and 2 Cdn Corps RCA in designation. The patch on the tunic is 1 Cdn Corps RCA. Both First Cdn Army 1 AGRA and First Cdn Army 2 AGRA wore the same patch.

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Mike,

Great BD.

Before my Grandfather transferred into Le Regiment de la Chaudiere in November 1940...he was an enlistee with the 105th A/TK Battery in St. George New Brunswick. His Service Number is very close to this BD's owner.

Mike

[fougasse1940]

The zig-zag lines represent the streak of lightning which killed Dioscorus, the pagan father of Saint Barbara, patron saint of gunners, as punishment for beheading his daughter.

Rgds,

Thomas.

[fearnaught]

Hi, she hasn't been a saint since 1969, Mike

[Old Smelly]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, she hasn't been a saint since 1969, Mike

Not in the RC church, but still in Eastern Orthodox

Nice battledress
Lee

[G5074]

My grandfather was also in the 104th from New Brunswick.
His service number was only 50 away from this man.
His uniform is on display at the Millville Legion in New Brunswick.
I have his service medals, his badges and other items he brought home from his service in Italy, France and Germany.

Thanks for sharing these pictures.

[Artynut]

Thomas (fougrasse1940), you may be right in your assumption re the “zig-zag” lines and what they represent. I tend to think you may be mistaking the fact that the zig-zag or “Lightning Flash” in a near vertical position as per on the R.A. Regimental tie, cravat or cummerbund are that actual representation of the flash that killed Dioscorus rather than the zig-zag on the AGRA and Corps badges.
With respect, D.J.

[Michael Reintjes]

Just sent for this mans records…will update when I receive them

[cefguy]

Hello:
It is a great example of a proud uniform. Would ribbons not have been sewn on the jacket? Hard to tell if maybe they were removed for a display or something. A very nice piece.
Don

[Noiseboyz3]

Do you know why she is no longer a saint?