NEWZEALAND DENTAL CORPS

[49lassiepen]

Recent ebay purchase no ref book on New Zealand militaria I know that the dental corps was formed in Nov 1915 [5 years before A D C ] Could any body give a start and finish date when these were worn
In gallery and my dental album
David

[Milmed]

The ones you have in your album are WWII issue NZ Dental Corps.

The WWI issue had a central device of two snakes forming the letters DC with a crowned wreath. Below a scroll with motto "EX MALO BONUM"

They became Royal NZ Dental Corps in 1949 with a new set of insignia issued post 1953

[49lassiepen]

Many thanks for the information much appreciated
David
-any information as to date when this pattern was introduced

[Milmed]

Hi David,
Sorry, been looking but cannot find the intro dates on these.

Someone must know though so maybe they will let us know.

Steven

[atillathenunns]

Hmmmm, no one jumping to answer this old badge mystery, well I will have a crack at it.

Just for better understanding, the "NZ Army Dental Corps" was given the "Royal" prefix in 1947, in 1949 its name was changed to the Royal NZ Dental Corps.

I have not seen the album so am only guessing you are referring to the KC dental badge with the kiwi? IMO, based on a blurry photo, I am leaning that the badge in question was worn in 1917.

[Milmed]

Originally Posted by atillathenunns

Hmmmm, no one jumping to answer this old badge mystery, well I will have a crack at it.

Just for better understanding, the "NZ Army Dental Corps" was given the "Royal" prefix in 1947, in 1949 its name was changed to the Royal NZ Dental Corps.

I have not seen the album so am only guessing you are referring to the KC dental badge with the kiwi? IMO, based on a blurry photo, I am leaning that the badge in question was worn in 1917.

Clearly you did not see that the badge was identified as the WWII kiwi badge. The question was when was this one officially adopted? Corbett does not give a clear indication, but doubt it was 1917 as there was already a badge in use then with two snakes forming the letters DC.

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by Milmed

Clearly you did not see that the badge was identified as the WWII kiwi badge. The question was when was this one officially adopted? Corbett does not give a clear indication, but doubt it was 1917 as there was already a badge in use then with two snakes forming the letters DC.

I got a picture that suggests WW1, have you got a picture that suggests WW2?

[atillathenunns]

This blurry photograph was taken in November 1917 by Henry Armytage Sanders, it shows officers and staff of the New Zealand dental hospital in Nielles.

If one looks carefully with a bit of digital enhancement I believe you can see both variations being worn.

Dental - Officers and staff of the New Zealand dental hospital in Nielles, France 1917.jpg

[Milmed]

Thanks for the extra information. Unfortunately I do not have a picture.

Are you able to zoom in your picture to show the insignia as the posted image is so small, all that can be seen is some light 'splodges' and that is not very definitive.

So I took some time and went to hunt down the picture you show and it does in fact appear that both types are been worn.

Image No.H340 - The officer seated in front appears to be wearing the kiwi version and the two service men in the back appear to have the DC snake version (though the image is blurry as you stated)

There were a few more in this series of pictures. One showing the dentist at work wearing what appears to be the Kiwi dental badge and
Image No.H336 - Shows same officer working on a Patient. The soldier assisting him in the background is same person as the tall one in H340. He is wearing NZMC collar badges
Image No.H337 - Same officer working on a patient and you can clearly see the Kiwi Dental collar badge worn by this officer along with NZDC shoulder titles

Looking again at the original photo and seeing the other pictures, it appears three different badges are been worn:
1. Officer wearing Kiwi Dental badge
2. Tall soldier directly behind officer wearing NZMC collar badges
3. Soldier to the right of them wearing what appears to be the joined DC snake collar badges.

Could we assume from this that the kiwi version was an officers badge? and the DC badge was for service men (i.e. dental assistants and dental technicians)?

So, the the questions appears as to what was worn during WWII?

[omok1]

Or you could get these.....only one I have seen and owned. A collar badge made from a Stokes made NZMC. Hand cut white metal "DC" fitted and part of the scroll "M" obliterated.

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by Milmed

Thanks for the extra information. Unfortunately I do not have a picture.

Are you able to zoom in your picture to show the insignia as the posted image is so small, all that can be seen is some light 'splodges' and that is not very definitive.

So I took some time and went to hunt down the picture you show and it does in fact appear that both types are been worn.

Image No.H340 - The officer seated in front appears to be wearing the kiwi version and the two service men in the back appear to have the DC snake version (though the image is blurry as you stated)

There were a few more in this series of pictures. One showing the dentist at work wearing what appears to be the Kiwi dental badge and
Image No.H336 - Shows same officer working on a Patient. The soldier assisting him in the background is same person as the tall one in H340. He is wearing NZMC collar badges
Image No.H337 - Same officer working on a patient and you can clearly see the Kiwi Dental collar badge worn by this officer along with NZDC shoulder titles

Looking again at the original photo and seeing the other pictures, it appears three different badges are been worn:
1. Officer wearing Kiwi Dental badge
2. Tall soldier directly behind officer wearing NZMC collar badges
3. Soldier to the right of them wearing what appears to be the joined DC snake collar badges.

Could we assume from this that the kiwi version was an officers badge? and the DC badge was for service men (i.e. dental assistants and dental technicians)?

So, the the questions appears as to what was worn during WWII?

The first nail in the coffin that these badges were only worn in WW2 is the Record of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force poster published in 1924, it clearly shows the kiwi badge version in the Divisional Troops section.

Dental Corps badge 1924.jpg

This is the clearest image I can get from the officer seated in the original picture, but I think it is what it is.
IMO the kiwi (bronze) NZDC badge was only worn by officers serving overseas, most likely adopted early 1916 and possibly adopted before the other version.

Dental - Officers and staff of the New Zealand dental hospital in Nielles, France (2).jpg

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by omok1

Or you could get these.....only one I have seen and owned. A collar badge made from a Stokes made NZMC. Hand cut white metal "DC" fitted and part of the scroll "M" obliterated.

Never bought into the "NZASC DC badges" but I would buy into your badge was converted by a camp jeweller.

[atillathenunns]

Newton Ernest Wickham NZDC, Portrait 1940, on enlistment (kindly provided by family)

Dental Newton Ernest Wickham NZDC 1940.jpg

[atillathenunns]

Leslie Everitt NZDC Korea, Taken at 38th Parallel one mile South of Pintail Bridge near camp Kiwi, in 1953.

dental Leslie Everitt NZDC Korea, Taken at 38th Parallel one mile South of Pintail Bridge near c.jpg

[omok1]

Originally Posted by atillathenunns

Never bought into the "NZASC DC badges" but I would buy into your badge was converted by a camp jeweller.

??? Nothing to do with converted NZASC badges done by a camp jeweller, this is clearly a Stoked made NZMC badge with the centre removed and substituted by a heavy gauge silver or white metal "DC" and then the "M" removed from scroll?? Not sure what your comment refers to?? Irrelvent whether we as collectors "Buy in" or not, I got this badge out of an estate lot in the 1980s, so it was most certainly worn in WW1. Our buy in counts for little when the badge can be traced to the period.