MGC COLLARS BY MOUNTED MGC AND TF NO 1 DRESS IN 1917!

[Alan O]

This is a unique photo and is worth a look.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index...,640054.0.html

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Alan O

This is a unique photo and is worth a look.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index...,640054.0.html

1917 - I don't think so. The overseas service chevrons weren't taken into general wear until the introduction of Army Order 4 of January 1918 and then their wear was expanded under Army Council Instruction 518 of the 12th May 1918. Having the three on his forearm would indicate overseas service from 1916.

Collars badges were generally introduced universially post-war for units and this lad is as one can see a member of the Machine Gun Corps - dressed for 'mounted duties', so could be either the cavalry or 'infantry' Branch. Only a clearer view of the shoulder strap would give a clear indication of which.

The Northumberland Fusilier in the background(a Territorial) is wearing his pre-war 1909 pattern scarlet jacket, as seen here, which is one from my own collection;-
1909 tunic - 4th Bn, NF.jpg
Clearly seen sewn to the lower right arm are his 'efficiency' stars, inidicating being returned five times efficient for each star.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by Graham Stewart

1917 - I don't think so. The overseas service chevrons weren't taken into general wear until the introduction of Army Order 4 of January 1918 and then their wear was expanded under Army Council Instruction 518 of the 12th May 1918. Having the three on his forearm would indicate overseas service from 1916.

Collars badges were generally introduced universially post-war for units and this lad is as one can see a member of the Machine Gun Corps - dressed for 'mounted duties', so could be either the cavalry or 'infantry' Branch. Only a clearer view of the shoulder strap would give a clear indication of which.

The Northumberland Fusilier in the background(a Territorial) is wearing his pre-war 1909 pattern scarlet jacket, as seen here, which is one from my own collection;-
Attachment 79567
Clearly seen sewn to the lower right arm are his 'efficiency' stars, inidicating being returned five times efficient for each star.

Or 17, 18, 19 Graham. Or indeed any three of 15,16,17,18,19 of course.

The photo makes one believe that the Tardis existed in the period 1914-20 ..... but then Tardis is indeed timeless, and an anachronism in the literal sense. Perhaps the TF unit retained some scarlets for ceremonial purposes?

[AndyC_65]

It looks photoshopped to me!

[matti467]

Look carefully at the cuff of the sleeve on the left of the TF soldier then look at the face and the graininess of the face compared to the 'freshness' of the tunic. I am saying this is made up.
Matti

[Toby Purcell]

Unlike the Regulars the full dress uniforms belonged to (i.e. were held and administered by) the County Territorial Associations and were retained for much longer. It is not unusual to see pictures of TF men at 'home' in full dress tunics, in various situations during the war. I don't see it as quite such a unique photo in that light. A great image nonetheless.

[Old Smelly]

Originally Posted by matti467

Look carefully at the cuff of the sleeve on the left of the TF soldier then look at the face and the graininess of the face compared to the 'freshness' of the tunic. I am saying this is made up.
Matti

I think it's just a case of bad photography or low quality equipment. The main focus is the man seated and his top half is crisp, his right leg however is slightly out of focus being nearer to the camera, as is the head and shoulders of the man standing behind, his hand next to the seated man is clear though. I think it's a real pic but poorly executed.
Lee

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Old Smelly

I think it's just a case of bad photography or low quality equipment. The main focus is the man seated and his top half is crisp, his right leg however is slightly out of focus being nearer to the camera, as is the head and shoulders of the man standing behind, his hand next to the seated man is clear though. I think it's a real pic but poorly executed.
Lee

I also think it's a genuine photo, without the advantage of modern technology to enhance it and as Toby points out the T.F. tended to hold onto items longer and keep them at home.

The grandfather at the rear may not have served overseas with his T.F. Battalion, but may have served with his second or third line T.F. Battalion, instructing raw recruits and may have decided to wear his old scarlet jacket along with his brother-in-law on a whim, rather than his SD.

Altogether an interesting photo, showing how it was and how it is regarding dress.