Argyll and Sutherland VII Volunteer Battalion???

[Nozzer]

Hello all,

I can't find any reference to this badge.

Is it any good or is it a fake?

Thanks for your help

Kind regards,

Andy

[gb64]

Hi Andy,

Ithink the badge is ok but not so sure on the scroll,i to cant find ref to it the only ones i have seen have the numbers on the scroll and not numeral type but as always someone may know better

Regards

Gerard

[Peter Brydon]

In Westlake "The Volunteer Infantry 1880-1908", Argyle and Sutherland V.B.`s go up to the 7th. (Clackmannan and Kinross ) V.B. but a badge for the battalion is not shown in either of the Bloomer books.

P.B.

[Nozzer]

Thanks chaps

I have "Scottish regimental Badges 1793-1971" by W.H. and K.D. Bloomer and as Peter says it isn't in there. A real curio (to me, at least!) and the two parts seem to be of the same metal with matching patina.

Andy

[Silver Tourist]

Good evening.

I make no comment upon the illustrated item. However, suffice to say there are hallmarked silver examples, one of which sits beside me on the desk, hallmarked Edinburgh 1887, and hallmarked plaid brooches, and unmarked waist belt plates, and shoulder-belt plates too.

A trawl of Sales Catalogues from DNW, Bosleys and Wallis & Wallis will produce examples of these cited items. My hallmarked example is ex-Mooney Collection from the DNW dispersal Sale following his death. See Lot 738, illustrated in the Catalogue for the Sale 28 March 2002.

My example matches, generally, the O/R's example illustrated above.

Next question?

Enjoy.

S.T.

[Arnhemjim]

The following page on the Scottish Military History web site will give you some additional information.
http://www.scottishmilitaryarticles....ish_RV_11e.htm
Yours aye,
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

[Peter Brydon]

Jim,

Having gone to the link and then having had a look at their page on the 8th ( Scottish ) V.B. Kings Liverpool Regiment which shows a well known restrike badge, I would tend to treat anything on that site with caution.

P.B.

[Nozzer]

Thanks S.T. and you Jim for the link

The one thing I notice about my badge is that it seems that the stems of the thistles are missing at the bottom. It looks like it was made like this?

Regards,

Andy

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Andy
I hope this will put your mind at rest. Here is an example of an Officers A&SH VII VBn badge from the collection of the late Arthur Strutt c.1887. It may even be the same one that ST now has (?) Anyway, it certainly confirms the format of your ORs badge. Regards Jeff

Offs VII Bn A&SH (1).jpg

[Silver Tourist]

Good evening.

As indicated above, my example is Ex-Frank Mooney Collection. I know it was in that Colllection since at least 1995. It was also there in 2000. On both occasions Mr Mooney offered me the whole Collection. It was then dispersed in 2002, after his death. My example is illustrated in the Catalogue of the DNW Sale, from which I purchased the item.

Mr Strutt's fantastic Collection was dispersed in two sections. The first was offered through DNW in June 2000. I have the Catalogue to hand and no hallmarked VII VB A&SH is listed in that Sale.

The second section of Mr Strutt's Collection was dispersed, over five Sales, through Wallis & Wallis between October 2001 and March 2002. Again, I have the Catalogues to hand and I find no example of a hallmarked VII VB A&SH badge listed in the Collection, although there are two O/R's examples.

The Mooney Collection included a set of officer's VII VB cap, plaid brooch, cross-belt plate and waist-belt plate. The two former items being hallmarked en-suite, the two latter being silver plated. Mr Mooney suggested in correspondence that only four such sets, assayed 1887, had been made, to celebrate the formation of the Bn. and, of course, the Golden Jubilee.

I make no comment upon the accuracy, or otherwise, of that latter suggestion.

Enjoy.

S.T.

[Peter Brydon]

Rather like with the Hugh King collection, it was incredible the collections that were built up in the period following WW2 and the queries that can be answered by studying the items in those collections.

P.B.

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi ST and others,
Sorry if my remarks offended you, but as indicated this was just an assumption on my part...wrongly as it turned out. Tho' who knows ? This item is so rare I guess it must be in someone's collection by now (perhaps via Mr Mooney). But one thing I can say for sure is that the item I have shown is definately ex Arthur Strutt Colln.
My records show that I visited him on the 7th Sept 1975 and took this and several other photos of glengarry badges etc from his fine collection.
I accept your statement that this item did not appear in any of the Sales Catalogues you mention, but can only assume that this and possibly others may have been privately sold (or exchanged) before he died.
Anyway, the main reason I posted this image was to reassure Andy that this format for the 7th VBn A&SH badge is indeed correct, and I apologize most sincerely if my accompanying remarks caused any offence. Sincerely. Jeff

[John Mulcahy]

Attached is a photo of the design approval for 7th Vol Bn Other Ranks ornaments from the RACD records, WO359 Vol 21.

You will see written on the title that the same designs were intended for the 3Bn with a numeral change.

Also attached for interest is a scan of the uniforms plate for this Bn from Greirson's History of the Scottish Volunteer Force.

John

[Silver Tourist]

Good afternoon.

It never even occurred to me that there could be anything about which to take umbrage, Mr McWillam. I did rather get the impression from the late Mr Mooney that he had purchased his example together with the other items, which extended to buttons etc. as a single package. It has to be said though that he could tell a tale or two. (A little like someone else I have known.) The format of the badge though is undoubtedly correct, as Mr Mulchay has also been able to confirm.

And, as Mr Brydon says, one can learn so very much from Collections assembled between and after the Wars and now sadly being dispersed. Another example is the Henderson Collection which went through Wallis & Wallis some years ago. Truly sumptuous, helped by some high quality photography of course.

Enjoy.

S.T.

[Nozzer]

Thank you all for your informative posts.

It never ceases to amaze me the wealth of material that people have in their possession.

Kind regards,

Andy