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  #1  
Old 14-10-16, 08:41 AM
dak580 dak580 is offline
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Default Birmingham Pals

G'day Guys

Here are a few pictures of my Birmingham Pals cap.

I say Pals because of the cap badge which displays all the right signs and as never been removed from the cap.

As can be seen it has orange piping which is correct for The Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

Also I pick it up around 35 years ago in Aston so exactly the right area of the UK.

John
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File Type: jpg DSCF1717.jpg (48.2 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF1718.jpg (49.3 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF1719.jpg (36.7 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF1720.jpg (34.1 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg KK594 (Pals).jpg (84.7 KB, 90 views)
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  #2  
Old 14-10-16, 09:27 AM
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manchesters manchesters is offline
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John,

The Birmingham Pals have their own different cap badge.
See attached.

regards
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File Type: jpg KitchenersBirminghamWeb.jpg (90.1 KB, 107 views)
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  #3  
Old 14-10-16, 11:29 AM
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Great side cap. A couple of points to add:

-The pals wore the double scrolled badge on their peaked caps - but this was by no means universal and some were the single scrolled badge.

-There are a number of photos of them in side caps with a single scrolled badge when they were in UK late 14/early 15. The only photos of side caps show a single scroll badge and not the double scrolled version which was solely worn on the khaki and dark blue peaked ones. Photos of the Pals with single scroll badges are in here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birmingham-.../dp/1848844220

-I have suspected that the Pals side cap badge may have been a regimentally procured badge and not the standard issue one so a lugged all brass one is a possibility. The chain however looks to be officer type.

- Some good photos of the 3rd Bn here in winter 1914. Some are wearing the dark blue peaked caps whilst others have side caps. http://www.moseleians.co.uk/birmingham-pals/#

-I can't be certain that your hat definitely is Pals; but it warrants further investigation. I would actually prefer it if the piping was not there as the 1915 'postmans blues' uniforms did not have such regtl distinctions and it may be a regtl hat.

Thanks for showing.

Alan

Last edited by Alan O; 14-10-16 at 12:55 PM.
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  #4  
Old 14-10-16, 02:38 PM
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Phillip Herring Phillip Herring is offline
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Looks to me that it is a legit Royal Warwicks OR's coloured field service cap with an Officers' Service Dress collar badge.

Phil
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  #5  
Old 14-10-16, 03:51 PM
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Unless I am mistaken the Pals would be WWI and this cap would be post 1937 when the Coloured FS cap was re introduced to the British Army.#


It looks to be a fine unmessed with example, always good to see them with their original badge still in place.
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  #6  
Old 19-10-16, 05:21 PM
dak580 dak580 is offline
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Many thanks for all your reply's.

Like I say and Alan points out the only reason I think it's Pals is the badge.

Is it an officers example because of the construction, could this explain the piping and the badge? I don't know.

If it is a 1930's construction why use a WW1 badge?

I honestly have no idea or facts that prove it one way or the other.

I did email the Royal Warwickshire museum and ask them if they could shed any light on the cap and badge and got a very nice reply saying they will investigate but that's been 12 months ago and I have heard nothing further.

Once again many thanks and if you are able to find any information in the future please share.

John
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  #7  
Old 19-10-16, 05:28 PM
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manchesters manchesters is offline
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John,

Whose to say the badge and cap started out life together? I dont believe they did.

The badge isnt a WW1 'Pals' cap badge its a collar badge and the cap isnt WW1 its much later.

In short someone has just stuck whatever badge they had to hand on the cap.

This could be for numerous reasons, some innocent and some to deceive, either way its NOT a WW1 Birmingham Pals cap and badge.

regards
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  #8  
Old 20-10-16, 09:03 AM
Staffsyeoman Staffsyeoman is offline
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The construction of that Royal Warwicks officers' collar (the separate chain; the typeface of the lettering, the robust antelope) make me more inclined to think it is a WW2 era badge - it is the same construction as my late father's except his was darker bronzing. So I'm afraid the most likely solution is a WW2 officers' badge placed on a 1930s Other Ranks coloured side cap.

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly the side hats issued to the Birmingham Battalions when in the 1914 blue uniforms did not have orange piping.
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  #9  
Old 22-10-16, 08:05 PM
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORIGINAL-W...kAAOSwzaJYBg43

Another officers side cap with the same collar badge used. The one shown in the first post appears to be a cheap cap compared to the usual officers tailored ones but the badge is thus probably original.
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  #10  
Old 29-11-16, 06:00 PM
jesb jesb is offline
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Default Birmingham Pals

Sorry to nit-pick, but the piping on the Royal Warwickshire Regiment side cap is not orange, but gold.

My great uncle, Pte 705 Alfred James Steadman, was in C Coy 16th RWR, 3rd City of Birmingham Battalion, from October 1914 until missing in action on 9th October 1917. I have three photographs of him taken late 1914 and between April and June 1915, and all show him with a RWR, not Birmingham Pals, cap badge. Other men with him wear a Pals badge. I have no explanation for this.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-16, 06:32 PM
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Photo's of the battalions in UK show the pals badge in peaked caps but some soldiers also wore the single scroll badge alongside others with pals badges.The blue side caps are only pictured with the standard badge.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-16, 07:13 PM
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Begs the question were these single scroll badges worn by the Pals, the hairy beast one from this previous thread, I assumed they were surplus stock issued to non Pals!
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