Brexit

[Jibba Jabba]

Originally Posted by BWEF

The SNP are pushing for a second referendum if England votes to leave the EU.

As for the rest, none of that has anything to do with Westminster whatsoever?

They already had one and they voted to stay in the UK. One has to set a sensible time frame for another.

The SNP cannot keep calling them over and over until the result suits them. That is not democracy. Nothing would ever get done in government.

Its down to David Cameron to sort the problem. He created the SNP though his media propaganda machine so he could win the election.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

They already had one and they voted to stay in the UK. One has to set a sensible time frame for another.

The SNP cannot keep calling them over and over until the result suits them. That is not democracy. Nothing would ever get done in government.

Its down to David Cameron to sort the problem. He created the SNP though his media propaganda machine so he could win the election.

Who is going to stop the Scots having another referendum in the unlikely event that the UK as a whole votes to leave the EU? You?

I think you will find that the SNP will call for a second referendum if they have enough MSPs at Holyrood. In fact, some are doing so already:

"David Cameron could face a second independence referendum in Scotland within the next three and a half years if Britons vote to leave the European Union, Alex Salmond has said."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...hin-three-yea/

Remember, if we did vote to leave the EU it will not be happening first thing Monday morning. By the time all the negotiations are done it will be two years at a minimum, and ten years before the final details are ironed out. Ample time for the Scots to leave.

So, beware of what you wish for. England might leave the European Union, but Scotland is just as likely to leave the United Kingdom.

[FMT600]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Would a "suitable place for your children" include fighting major European wars? We have been at peace since 1945. Largely due to a united Europe.

My grandfathers generation, and my fathers generation wasted years of their lives, and many gave their lives, in war. My sons and my grandsons have not had to do so.

As for trading with the rest of the world. Good luck with undercutting China, India, Brazil et al.

Europe will be happy to sell us all the BMWs and champagne we can afford, but with much of our product we are being beaten on price by places like Poland, and that is even before the imposition of tariff barriers.

There is a reason that Clarks Shoes and Cadbury's moved to the EU. In the event of brexit they would be followed by the international firms from the far east etc who are only here because we are in the EU, and work cheap.

Hello again,

I don't want a tennis match here and of course respect your views as we are all entitled to our own so I wont make further comment on the economic aspects which in all honesty no-one knows for sure what is going to happen.

I will however make comment of the point of Europe and war as I think your a little confused, undoubtedly a united stand against the then Soviet Union deterred them from invading Western Europe, however to put things right that was hardly just a European affair, you may recall that as well as a vast amount of US hardware and very high troop levels there were also over 5000 Canadian troops deployed in Germany permanently, you may also recall that until 1955 West Germany had no armed forces and when these were created it took some time to build them up and France could not be relied on to toe the NATO line having opted out.

More recently with the advent of the European Union and the downscaling of the NATO presence in Europe your so called United Europe failed in the Balkans as did the UN (I know I was there) resulting in NATO sorting the problems out and as for Russia and the Ukraine the EU hardly turned out to be a tiger, more like a domestic pussy that simply rolled over and allowed Russia to have its way, even though in my opinion the Crimea has always been Russian and it was an unfortunate Soviet era mistake to give it to the Ukraine and the Russians simply took back what was theirs, as for border incursions into mainland Ukraine (irrespective of Russian speakers living there), that's a different matter.

Having a United Europe for the purpose of mutual defence is dead in the water unless you have a unified armed forces with a unified command and control mechanism which the EU have never had and never will, so as far as I can see your argument fails, whilst NATO does have a unified command and control mechanism plus guarantees that Nations will provide troops, but not every nation is in the EU, therefore there is no viable reason to stay in the EU to prevent a major European conflict whilst NATO exits which provides the deterrent to recent/current.

I hope you find the above rational even if your not in full agreement and hopefully we can now get back to posting about badges.

Kind Regards,

FMT600

[bewley]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Erm, you do realise that the UK is highly likely to fold if we vote out do you?

I normally shy away from making personal insults on an anonymous forum, however, in your case I am considering making an exception . . . .

[FMT600]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

Actors, footballers and scientists should stick to what they are good at.

I could not agree more and its certainly not the well being of the nation, in the context of BREXET, simply using their fame and familiarity with the public to scaremonger about stuff they know very little or nothing about.

FMT600

[Irv]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Knowing how the world works rather than listening to self serving politicians?

Farage and UKIP are known to do no work in Europe and as for Boris Johnson...

Remember the press pack waiting outside Johnsons house waiting to see if he was going to be pro or anti Europe?

The simple truth is that Boris Johnson is pro Boris Johnson, and this is his best crack at becoming the next Prime Minister.

Give me scientists, industrialists and economists any day.

Good luck:roll eyes:

PS you'll need it (if we stay in)

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by FMT600

Hello again,

I don't want a tennis match here and of course respect your views as we are all entitled to our own so I wont make further comment on the economic aspects which in all honesty no-one knows for sure what is going to happen.

I will however make comment of the point of Europe and war as I think your a little confused, undoubtedly a united stand against the then Soviet Union deterred them from invading Western Europe, however to put things right that was hardly just a European affair, you may recall that as well as a vast amount of US hardware and very high troop levels there were also over 5000 Canadian troops deployed in Germany permanently, you may also recall that until 1955 West Germany had no armed forces and when these were created it took some time to build them up and France could not be relied on to toe the NATO line having opted out.

More recently with the advent of the European Union and the downscaling of the NATO presence in Europe your so called United Europe failed in the Balkans as did the UN (I know I was there) resulting in NATO sorting the problems out and as for Russia and the Ukraine the EU hardly turned out to be a tiger, more like a domestic pussy that simply rolled over and allowed Russia to have its way, even though in my opinion the Crimea has always been Russian and it was an unfortunate Soviet era mistake to give it to the Ukraine and the Russians simply took back what was theirs, as for border incursions into mainland Ukraine (irrespective of Russian speakers living there), that's a different matter.

Having a United Europe for the purpose of mutual defence is dead in the water unless you have a unified armed forces with a unified command and control mechanism which the EU have never had and never will, so as far as I can see your argument fails, whilst NATO does have a unified command and control mechanism plus guarantees that Nations will provide troops, but not every nation is in the EU, therefore there is no viable reason to stay in the EU to prevent a major European conflict whilst NATO exits which provides the deterrent to recent/current.

I hope you find the above rational even if your not in full agreement and hopefully we can now get back to posting about badges.

Kind Regards,

FMT600

My initial point about the EEC keeping the peace in Europe had nothing whatsover to do with the Warsaw Pact, still less with the former Yugolavia. Have I said we should not have been in NATO?

I was speaking in internal, within the EEC, terms. Germany was not going to invade France via Belgium when all three were in the then six.

As far as I am aware neither Yugoslavia nor Russia nor the Ukraine were part of a united Europe whilst the fighting was going on, although starting with Slovenia, some of these places, having had recent experience of war, are now members, or hoping to join.

Now, back to badges. Don't you just love the way you can send badges all over the EU with no customs problems?

[Irv]

Originally Posted by BWEF

My initial point about the EEC keeping the peace in Europe had nothing whatsover to do with the Warsaw Pact, still less with the former Yugolavia. Have I said we should not have been in NATO?

I was speaking in internal, within the EEC, terms. Germany was not going to invade France via Belgium when all three were in the then six.

As far as I am aware neither Yugoslavia nor Russia nor the Ukraine were part of a united Europe whilst the fighting was going on, although starting with Slovenia, some of these places, having had recent experience of war, are now members, or hoping to join.

Now, back to badges. Don't you just love the way you can send badges all over the EU with no customs problems?

I can send badges to the USA without any problems! The EU is a waste of space and a broken concept that is on it's way out. Lets hope that we are out by tomorrow.

[Charlie 585]

Gentlemen,

Whatever the result, in or OUT we'll all still be here tomorrow so might I dare to suggest that we don't continue to argue the toss any further and let due process run its course.

We can I'm sure find plenty of badge/military related topics to fall out with each other over instead when normal service is resumed tomorrow.

Regards to all whatever side of the fence you are on.

Ry

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by Irv

I can send badges to the USA without any problems! The EU is a waste of space and a broken concept that is on it's way out. Lets hope that we are out by tomorrow.

Even if the vote is for an exit you will not be out for a good couple of years.

If you have had no problems with customs when sending items to and from the USA I envy you.

[billy4294]

Hello Ry, for a change of topic here, who is going to a Somme centenary parade? I'm off to Manchester for the National service there myself.
billy

[GriffMJ]

Thats me done..... real democracy today, a nations people being given the choice to decide its future.... by its own Parliament. The choice is simple .... the freedom of Sovereignty or the yoke of Federalism.

I have been waiting a long time for this day..... in my life time I have not had the opportunity.... the choice..... to decide. I am nearly 50 years old .....Its about *&*&ing time!

I hope we vote "out"..... but ...win or lose.... we have had the chance.

[grenadierguardsman]

Believe in Britain, vote LEAVE !
Andy

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Believe in Britain, vote LEAVE !
Andy

To late now Andy, polls are shut as of 2200........

[ebro]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

To late now Andy, polls are shut as of 2200........

That means now is the right time to vote stay