RA ATS trade proficiency badge

[tomdocherty72]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

"MC", unofficial, possibly "Motor Cyclist".

Thanks Leigh, She was not a motor cyclist so it is beginning to look like she may have worn the H for Height Taker badge.

[tomdocherty72]

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

I think Simons "H" suggestion sounds like the most appropriate badge to wear above stripes, but I can't prove it.

Rob

I agree with that Rob. Thanks.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by tomdocherty72

badges and a RA badge above her left tunic pocket.

Which RA badge is she wearing?

Marc

[leigh kitchen]

Is it possible to say for sure that it's "C" or "H" or is it a case of it could be either?
The right hand half of both letters, the portion shown in the photo, appear to be near enough the same.
Unless the lady was in a unit which would have "C" Class Tradesmen and no Height Takers or vice versa then I can't go firm on "C" or "H", both of which were worn on the upper right arm.

I've tried to attach cropped images of the C and the H badges images but failed.

"The year was 1942. I was a hairdresser in Chorley, Lancashire. As hairdressing was considered to be a luxury trade in wartime and I was 18 years old, I was given the choice of munitions work or joining one of the forces.

My friend May and I travelled to Preston to sign up in the forces and received the King’s Shilling. Two weeks later we were notified to go to Lancaster. We were met at Preston station by a sergeant, taken to Lancaster and fitted out with our uniforms.

How different my life changed in the next 4 years. We moved from Lancaster to Arborfield, where we did 6 weeks of intensive training all at the double. Each one was assessed for:
* Fitness
* Hearing
* Eyesight
* Nerves (in Ack-Ack action)
It was necessary to pass all the tests.

A battery of 4.5 inch anti-aircraft guns in action at night. In the foreground is an ATS section operating the height finder.
A battery of 4.5 inch anti-aircraft guns in action at night. In the foreground is an ATS section operating the height finder.

Fortunately I passed as a Predictor operator No.3 – which involved looking through a telescope, keeping the target on the horizon line. This demanded steady nerves under gunfire and we needed a lot of practice. At the end of the day, we were mentally and physically exhausted. We lost our voices as all orders were shouted as loudly as possible.

The procedure was as follows:

The predictor (Kerry – called after its inventor) [Major A.V. Kerrison at the Admiralty Research Laboratory, Teddington] passed the information we put in on to the guns (3.7) then the gunners fired the shells. We worked in 2 groups – A and B. I was in B group – 5 on the predictor, 3 on height-finding.

Plotters were on duty for 24 hours underground. The plotting room was always ready for any aircraft flying overhead.

We were well looked after with health inoculations every 3 months, regular dental care, F.F.I. (Free From Infection) each Friday.
We (14 girls in each hut) were confined to our billets on Friday nights. We had to clean all our equipment, even to the studs on the bottom of our boots.

After 6 weeks practice in Arborfield, we were sent to Bude in Cornwall. This was our first Gun-Site this was not operational, but it gave us a taste of what was to come.
The only description of the gunfire (4 guns firing in a semi-circle with the predictor 20 yards away) was like hell let loose. However, we got used to it.

Our battery was moved to 36 different sites along the East and South coasts of England.
During our time in Hull we shot down one of our own aircraft (a Wellington). The crew gave us the wrong signal. Fortunately they landed safely – just the tail missing. We were commended for our accurate firing but the crew were not impressed. Hull was badly hit at the time".
From the diary of Mary Latham (ATS)

[Rob Miller]

Isn't there a date difference which would illiminate the "C" possibility?

If I have this correct the 12 AA Divisions were disbanded in October 1942 after which the AA Command bow and arrow was worn by all?

And the "C" class badge only came along in 1944?

Also if it is a trade badge wearing it above the stripes isn't the standard place, so could she be an instructor?

Rob??

[leigh kitchen]

I can't remember offhand when the 2nd pattern of the AA bow and arrow badge (shown in the photo worn above the badge in question) was adopted, the "C" Class Tradesman was introduced in 1944 and like the "A", "B" and "D" classes was worn upper right, not denoting Instructor.
The "H", also worn upper right, not denoting an Instructor, was introduced in 1938.

[tomdocherty72]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Which RA badge is she wearing?

Marc

This is the badge. Image taken in Oct 1944.

[tomdocherty72]

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

Isn't there a date difference which would illiminate the "C" possibility?

If I have this correct the 12 AA Divisions were disbanded in October 1942 after which the AA Command bow and arrow was worn by all?

And the "C" class badge only came along in 1944?

Also if it is a trade badge wearing it above the stripes isn't the standard place, so could she be an instructor?

Rob??

I know that she was serving with the 12th AA Div at first but as I have no service number for her I cannot trace her movements post 1942. The photo of her in dress uniform though taken in Oct 44 does show the AA command bow and arrow badge above the trade proficiency badge believed to be an H badge. My wife recalls her saying she worked with the AA guns but did not fire them. She also said that later she worked as a clerk (perhaps as AA defences were reduced later in the war?)

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by tomdocherty72

This is the badge. Image taken in Oct 1944.

Okay, thank you, that kicks a theory out the door.

Marc

[tomdocherty72]

[QUOTE=54Bty;457316]Okay, thank you, that kicks a theory out the door.

Marc[/QU

What was your discounted theory 54Bty. It may give me another lead to follow.

[leigh kitchen]

An example of a "C" on the left, "H" on the right (avariety of clerks wore the "C").

[tomdocherty72]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

An example of a "C" on the left, "H" on the right (avariety of clerks wore the "C").

The loops of the H seem to match more closely the badge she is wearing. Also the 'C' seem to be positioned slightly further away from the surrounding laurel wreath.

[leigh kitchen]

There will be slight variations depending on the manufacturer.
She was involved with the guns, so a possible H.
She was later a clerk, so a possible C.
I can't make an identification one way or the other.
(I'll leave the C and the H alone now).
Is that another badge on the left sleeve or merely creasing?

[tomdocherty72]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

There will be slight variations depending on the manufacturer.
She was involved with the guns, so a possible H.
She was later a clerk, so a possible C.
I can't make an identification one way or the other.
(I'll leave the C and the H alone now).
Is that another badge on the left sleeve or merely creasing?

I am not sure. it looks like it could be another badge but not enough to be clear enough to identify. Any ideas what badge the ATS or AA might have worn on the left sleeve of the dress tunic?