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#16
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PS. Sorry about the image sizes, but they link to other images on the web that I have no control over!
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#17
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Deleted - wrong thread.
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#18
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Well said. These are not brevets.
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#19
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If a number of people who served and earned these 'flying badges' but refer to them as brevets, what would you possibly say to them?
That they should now call them flying badges because it's the correct terminology in the Queen's Regulations? |
#20
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I was a wearer of the Navigator Flying Badge and I am now the wearer of the Weapon Systems Officer Flying Badge as a serving Flying Branch Wg Cdr - I also didn’t take issue when someone from the RAF Historical Society told me that the use of the word ‘Brevet’ was wrong. In fact the person who told me was a retired officer who was also the wearer of a Navigator Flying Badge.
If we get things wrong then we shouldn’t be too proud not to admit it and from then on get it right? |
#21
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Quote:
It refers to the RASC Air Despatch brevet on a number of occasions as a brevet. |
#22
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Why does AP1358 Chapter 7 use that word?
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#23
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A link to AP1358 and as Frank states in Chapter 7 it refers to both Flying Badges and Brevets.
https://rmhistorical.com/files/conte...egulations.pdf Simon. |
#24
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As does the online site for The RAF Museum at Hendon.
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/researc...ots-wings.aspx Simon |
#25
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Super portrait of Freddy Sykes!
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#26
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Throughout the history of the RAF the qualification badges for Aircrew have been called "Flying Badges". In all the dress regulations from 1st edition to the 5th edition this is the only term used. However the 6th edition does use the term "Brevet" when talking about the replacement of the Aircrew category badges and the introduction of the new Rear Crew badge. To quote;
"Note. With effect 1 Apr 03 the range of 5 aircrew brevets for rear crew personnel were replaced by the single rear crew brevet (see below). Those aircrew who were already qualified to wear old style individual brevets can opt to wear the new brevet or retain the old style but there will be no further provisioning of the current brevet. Rear Aircrew Brevet. The monogram ‘RAF’ in drab silk surrounded by a laurel leaf of brown silk, surmounted by a crown with an outspread drab silk wing 2½" (6.35 cm) long – on dark blue melton cloth. Introduced 1 Apr 03 to replace Navigator, Air Electronics Officer/Operator, Air Engineer and Air Loadmaster. (See Note Above)". Throughout my time in the service common parlance for these badges was "brevet", the term used by air and ground crew alike. It appears that the writer of the latest Dress Regs was used to that term and therefore used it in the AP. Bearing in mind that the re-written Regs would have had to be authorised at a high level it would seem that the word is now accepted as a description for these badges. Dave |
#27
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Quote:
QRs, as amended by due authority, are the ultimate arbiter. Last edited by grumpy; 13-10-19 at 07:40 PM. Reason: addendum |
#28
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The error in AP1358 has been in for amendment for over a year on the following:
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There is a new version of AP1358 due out imminently as it is long overdue a rewrite. |
#29
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While the thread is referring to 'RAF,' the UK is not the only country that uses the word brevet for pilot's wings, PJI's etc. Being pedantic on not using that word and describing even PJI's brevets as flying badges won't make a difference. Many members of air forces from around the world won't change from using the word brevet just because it isn't in the KR's or the QR's because it doesn't apply to them.
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#30
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RAF Flying Badges issued: Bold are still current
Pilot 1912-Date (With Changes in 1918 and 1953) [RFC/RAF] Observer (1912-1918 and 1936-1942) [O] Air Gunner (1939-1955) [AG] Air Bomber (1942-1946) [AB] Radio Observer (1942-1957) [RO] Navigator (1942-2003) [N] Air Engineer (1942-2003) [E] Air Signaller (1944-2003) [S] Met Observer (1945-1947) [MO] Para Jump Instructor (1945-Date) [Parachute Emblem] Air Electronics Operator / Officer (1956-2003) [AE] Air Quatermaster (1962-1970) [QM] Air Loadmaster (1970-2003) [LM] Fighter Controller (1983-2019) [FC] Airborne Technician (1989-2019) [AT] Weapon System Operator / Officer (2003-Date) [RAF] Airborne Image Analyst (2008-2019) [IA] RPAS Pilot (2012-2019) [RAF with Blue Laurels] Airborne Specialist (2020-Date) [RAF] |
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