Polish Army collar patch?

[DougSA]

I would be grateful for any opinions or insights on this collar patch.

It is dark blue with yellow piping at the top. Of the shape worn on service dress by officers and NCOs of the Polish Army during WW2. The dimensions of the collar patch are approx. 27mm across the base, 25mm along the lower sides, and 45mm from the top to the base (this is slightly smaller than the 30x30x48 indicated in Oliver Lock's book). If it is a genuine Polish Army WW2 patch, then it should be for infantry units, of the type worn by the embryonic Polish Parachute Brigade (originally 4th Cadre Rifle Brigade), before it received it's own unique insignia.

I should mention that the patch was still sewn onto service dress type fabric when I acquired it. However, I have since removed it, as I am always suspicious of patches still on backing fabric - and was also advised to do this by someone I respect in matters Polish - in order to better see and assess the construction of the patch itself.

I have to say that the construction and condition of the backing (lapel) fabric is convincingly old. The collar patch was actually stitched on to the top layer of the lapel fabric, rather than all the way through to the underside, suggesting that it was done by the tailor who made the service dress (assuming it to be genuine). Also, the underside has cross-stitching, for stiffening the lapel. Some of the material between the layers was very brittle and disintegrated in places, likely due to age. These characteristics would seem to be rather elaborate for a fake, and I am quite convinced of the age of the item and that it is authentic (whether Polish Army or not).

The issue with it is that it does not have the same construction as other Polish (Parachute Brigade) collar patches that I have seen, which are a bit more substantial. Although I have seen collar pennants of similarly simple felt construction.

Any insights appreciated!

[dragon166]

Looks more like a Belgian collar tab to me! Like the one in the pic.
Dave

[DougSA]

Originally Posted by dragon166

Looks more like a Belgian collar tab to me! Like the one in the pic.
Dave

Thank you for the 'lead', which opens up more possibilities.

If Belgian, would you by any chance have any further pointers on the colour combination or probable dating?

Of course, the same shape as the Polish variety, but perhaps different construction.

[dragon166]

I have attached a listing showing the colours of the various patches and the periods worn. Hope this helps. I suggest it is for Quartermaster Troops No 151j
Dave

[DougSA]

Originally Posted by dragon166

I have attached a listing showing the colours of the various patches and the periods worn. Hope this helps. I suggest it is for Quartermaster Troops No 151j
Dave

Thank you Dave!

It would be great if any forum members can share photos of such Belgian collar patches, to compare the materials and construction.

If Belgian, then it would indeed look like QM troops.

[Quicksilver]

Here are a set of Belgian Signals (Troups de Transmission TTr) insignia. The top one on my scan is very like yours but with white piping. No backing. Are you sure yours is not white but yellowed with age and cruelty? It is a fine felt like material and worn by Warrant Officers as a collar patch. The Aspirant bottom right is a velvet like material which winds behind the card underneath.
brgds
Quicksilver

[DougSA]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Here are a set of Belgian Signals (Troups de Transmission TTr) insignia. The top one on my scan is very like yours but with white piping. No backing. Are you sure yours is not white but yellowed with age and cruelty? It is a fine felt like material and worn by Warrant Officers as a collar patch. The Aspirant bottom right is a velvet like material which winds behind the card underneath.
brgds
Quicksilver

Thank you for sharing Quicksilver!

[DougSA]

Comparing the shape of my patch with Belgian and Polish examples, my observation is that my patch more closely matches collar patches of the Polish Army (see picture). In particular, the point at which the sides of the patch turn inwards towards the top point. On the Polish patches (and mine) this is above the half way line; whereas on the Belgian patches it is only half way or even less.

Construction-wise, I wonder if there are any examples that match my patch (see picture)? The blue 'kite' shape is a simple flat piece of material, cut to shape and only folded over at the top where the piping has been added.

Colour-wise, I am quite sure that the original colours are dark blue and yellow.

[Luc]

Here are some Polish collar badges to compare the shape.

Belgium was my first thought too.

[DougSA]

Originally Posted by Luc

Here are some Polish collar badges to compare the shape.

Belgium was my first thought too.

Hi Luc,

Thank you for sharing the photo of the Polish Parachute Brigade collar patches.

These are nice examples of the version worn on the battledress tunic, by ORs and officers, in infantry colours. I especially like the earlier light grey version .

The other - pentangle - version was worn on service dress jacket by officers; as shown in my previous posting.

[DougSA]

I have been advised by an expert on Polish Airborne insignia that it looks like the pattern worn by the Polish Army in France in 1940. Would anyone have any examples of such patches?

[rsunday]

Originally Posted by Luc

Here are some Polish collar badges to compare the shape.

Belgium was my first thought too.

Luc,
Can you show back of this right patch?

Greetings
Rafal