British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Anodised Aluminium Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20-05-08, 05:36 AM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,870
Default Take A Step Back - Staybrite or Anodised Aluminium?

Hi Guys,

Julian has raised a very important point in regard to these modern cap badges.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ead.php?t=2024

post #2

Should they formally be known as 'Staybrite' items or a more generic description such as 'Anodised Aluminium' which could be shortened to 'A/A'?

If 'Staybrite' is a commercial name like Hoover or Biro do we know which company came up with it?

Regards

Chris

Last edited by hagwalther; 20-05-08 at 05:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20-05-08, 06:24 AM
dragonz18's Avatar
dragonz18 dragonz18 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pukekohe , New Zealand
Posts: 534
Default

Just a note on these badges.
The term 'staybrite' is something that I've only really seen used by UK sources.
'Anodised Aluminium' ( a/a ) is the ( polite,anyway ) term almost always used in NZ for these items.
Not sure how they are commonly refered to, by the other Commonwealth countries that use them.

Cheers !
Steve

Last edited by dragonz18; 20-05-08 at 06:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20-05-08, 07:10 AM
Cardiffbloke's Avatar
Cardiffbloke Cardiffbloke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Default

All i can say is that these badges were used by soldiers and having been a soldier for 32 years i feel qualified to comment. In all my time in the Army i never heard anyone call an anodised aluminium badge or a chromed badge anything other than a 'staybright' badge.
Now as an old fart collector, i understand the need for categorising them otherwise. I have many examples of both chromed and AA and refer to them as such, but if the truth be known, they are always 'staybright' to me really!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20-05-08, 01:09 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,827
Default

I agree with CB while a/a is the exact construction. Even the new badges made of 'improved' silver or gilt metal could be called staybrite.

Alan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20-05-08, 06:28 PM
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,365
Default

I cant agree,a staybrite badge is made from aluminium and then anodised.A chromed badge is chromed metal not chromed aluminium.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20-05-08, 07:44 PM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,870
Default

OK - what needs to be done to find out if 'Staybrite' really was a commercial name.

If it was a commercial name then the badges should be classified generically as anodised aluminium.

The path I'm thinking here is 'Biro' v's 'Ball Point Pen' - Biro was the commercial name from a French manufacture but the generic name is Ball Point Pen.

So, who came up with the staybrite name?

This does sound really picky but I need to know the correct designation of these types of badges.

The official military name would help too.

I remember codes being called Nato Stock Numbers (NSN) from years back. Is there a NSN code book around with a sub-title in it describing these items with the actual badges with their NSN's below the title? This would be a very good indication as to what these badges actually are known as.

Regards

Chris

Last edited by hagwalther; 20-05-08 at 08:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20-05-08, 08:16 PM
Cardiffbloke's Avatar
Cardiffbloke Cardiffbloke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
I cant agree,a staybrite badge is made from aluminium and then anodised.A chromed badge is chromed metal not chromed aluminium.
To a collector yes.... to a soldier ..... No! Its all staybright......I'm now a collector so what's chromed is chromed and whats AA is AA....But Staybright was the generic term for all badges not requiring a polish.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15-06-08, 01:03 AM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,870
Default

Hi Guys,

I have recieved this image from a member where the term 'Anodised Alunimium' is used.

I suspect other sealed patterns show the same terminology.

As such, for my project I will from now on used the term 'Anodised Aluminium' when referring to badges of this genre.

I have also recieved the following information:

Also the following information was gleaned at Kew from WO32/21444. At 309th Meeting of Army Dress Committee on 22/03/72, following a 6 month trial by 15/19 Hussars, approval was given to introduce, on a maintenance basis, clutch fittings instead of twin shanks and cotter pins on all shoulder titles. Again note the terminology 'shank and cotter pins' not lugs!

Looks like 'lugs' are out and 'shanks' are in.

Regards

Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg APTC ano Sealed Pattern 25_final.jpg (36.8 KB, 41 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15-06-08, 07:20 AM
Saddle tree maker's Avatar
Saddle tree maker Saddle tree maker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 129
Default

IMO,
Starting to use official terminology will only achieve one thing - confusion.
We are collectors, not war office employees.
What's wrong with lugs, slider's and staybrite etc ?
These terms are collector's 'slang' which have been in use for many, many years.
Why do individual members feel the need to change this, especially when that change means using terms that collector's never used in the first place.
Just because newcomer's are unfamiliar with our slang, does not mean we should have to change it.
Officialdom has it's important place in this hobby, but this aspect of it, is purism gone mad.
STM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15-06-08, 08:06 AM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddle tree maker View Post
IMO,
Starting to use official terminology will only achieve one thing - confusion.
We are collectors, not war office employees.
What's wrong with lugs, slider's and staybrite etc ?
These terms are collector's 'slang' which have been in use for many, many years.
Why do individual members feel the need to change this, especially when that change means using terms that collector's never used in the first place.
Just because newcomer's are unfamiliar with our slang, does not mean we should have to change it.
Officialdom has it's important place in this hobby, but this aspect of it, is purism gone mad.
STM.
This was probably directed at me so I'll respond.

The reason to use official terminology is accuracy in description of items.

It is the use of slang terms that caused confusion where an original term is replaced by many others to describe the same item - this is where the confusion comes in.

If you propose to write a book on a particular subject then it becomes imperitive that all items related to the book are described in an accurate and consise way. It is ESSENTIAL that slang terms are included as a preface to describe any official term where required to enable those who do not know the original names but that is where they should stop.

I don't think that by describing badges of the genre that I'm working in is 'purism gone mad' by any means. We need a description that describes these badges accurately and correctly and 'anodised aluminium' both describes the colouring process and material content - it also appears to be the official term which is a double wammy.

There is nothing wrong with with the slang terms you state but I believe I am changing absolutely nothing - on the contrary, slang terms are the words being used to change the original designation.

I've been collecting these badges for 35 odd years now and have been dismayed over this time period by the lack of good, accurate data on the subject which is something I hope to put right over the next couple of years or so. To do that I need to use a standard terminology and the official terminology from what I have seen seems more than adequate and accurate.

Note that I am no expert on any of this at all as I have previously stated in multiple posts but I have come in with a very open mind without preconceptions which at the end of the day may well be the difference between success and failure.

Do note though, if I do publish I will be asking for a lot of proof reading by established collectors to ensure that a first class publication is achieved.



Regards

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15-06-08, 01:19 PM
Saddle tree maker's Avatar
Saddle tree maker Saddle tree maker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 129
Default

Not really aimed at you in particular Chris, no.
It's just there seems to be a bit of a trend on the forum at the moment were the official terms are being encouraged - (There's another active thread concerning OSD badges which doesn't really seem to be reaching any sort of conclusion about terminology, official or otherwise, and in the case of one new member he said he has found it a bit confusing).
I wasn't aware you were writing a book and I totally agree that a glossary of terms in that book will be very useful, but on the forum, were alot of us are set in our ways and find it difficult not to use the 'Slang', who more often than not are exchanging views and chatting about experiences, I just thought extra terminology would confuse even more so.
I hadn't considered that experienced collector's used anything else, I just thought these terms were used by everyone.
And of course, at 42, I might just be plain old fashioned !!!!
Let me wish you well with your project, Chris.
New badge books are always welcome.
STM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 15-06-08, 06:08 PM
KLR's Avatar
KLR KLR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,497
Default

STM I'm delighted that at a mere 42 you consider yourself old fashioned, at a mere 55 I consider myself very much young at heart - though I'm writing a book about badges too and there I'm very old fashioned !!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 15-06-08, 06:35 PM
Saddle tree maker's Avatar
Saddle tree maker Saddle tree maker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 129
Default

It must be badge collecting, I'm old beyond my years !
STM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 15-06-08, 08:44 PM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,870
Default

Thanks Guys,

I'll be throwing a few curved balls out when I start hitting areas I know even less about when the time comes.

Will be looking for you all to put me straight !!!

Regards

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-06-08, 04:07 PM
Cultman Collectables Cultman Collectables is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nottinghamshire / Yorkshire
Posts: 10
Default

Hi As a collector of almost 40 years I have always felt that there is a great difference between Chrome badges and A/A or Staybrite badges. After the 2nd world war in the late 40's chrome badges were first introduced in an attempt to save soldiers the need to polish badges. The problem was that such badges could only ever be in one colour e.g. silver or white metal. They were fine for regiments such as the KSLI but of no value to regiments with all brass badges i.e. Royal Engineers or bi-metal i.e. The Northants. There advantage was however they were hard wearing. I am told that some of the bi-metal badges were produced in chrome and I have often had these come through my hands. Some old sweats have assured me they wore chrome badges when they were in the territorial army during the late 40's e.g. The Notts & Derby regt. It appears that the problem with regular units having to change bi-metal badges for single tone and the cost of production meant the army eventually chose to go towards anodised aluminium badges. Some units such as the Gurkhas continued using the chrome badges for much longer and are thus more frequently found on the market. I hope this adds to the thread. Best wishes, Graham
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.