Liverpool Scottish glengarries

[Peter Brydon]

These are pictures of the glengarries worn by the Liverpool Scottish during their existence and reflect their changes of title before the units eventual demise.

The first example had the badge of the 8th V.B. ( 1900-1908 ) which resembled a hpc but was usually worn without a crown.

The second badge was the well known badge of the 10th Kings Liverpool's ( 1908 - 1937 ). This was followed by the Liverpool Scottish ( Camerons ) badge ( 1937- 1967 ).

Next came the Highland Brigade/Volunteers badge (1967- 1992 ) as a Company of ( firstly ) The Highland Volunteers and then a Company of 5/8 Kings.

When the old badge of the 10th Kings was readopted the blue hackle of the Camerons was used by the unit and this appeared behind the 10th Kings badge.

Finally the badge of the Duke of Lancasters Regiment was worn on the glengarry by the Liverpool Scottish platoon of the Duke of Lancasters 4th (?) Battalion and the Liverpool Scottish cadets with a blue hackle. Both units have now sadly disappeared.

The glengarry`s worn up to 1967 ( at least the one`s in my collection ) have leather edging whilst the later ones have cloth edging.

Both the 8th V.B. and the 1908 pattern 10th Kings badges on the glengarry`s shown here have screw posts rather than lugs but most examples have lugs.

P.B.

[colin 17]

Did they really wear the hackle on the Glen? Its not normal and the Camerons didn't. Will talk to a mate of mine who was in the Liverpool Scottish and see what he says.

Colin

[Peter Brydon]

Hello Colin,

I don't know who put the hackles on the glengarries in my collection as it was not me, I will be interested to see what your friend says.

I cannot remember where they all came from but the one with the Highland Volunteers badge on came from CSM Mick Plews.

The hackle can be seen on the officers glengarry in the second photo.

Peter

[Paul Spellman]

They did at times
See attached,

[Paul Spellman]

A bit clearer on this with 51st HB badge

[jf42]

The blue hackle worn with the Glengarry reflects the relationship with the Cameron Highlanders who were granted a blue hackle for the ToS in 1940 and added the distinction to the cap badge post-war. The hackle, unusually, began to be worn with the Glengarry after it replaced the Balmoral as the No.1/No.2 Dress head dress circa 1960.

[colin 17]

This is all very interesting. It made me reassess what I knew about the hackle and I have learned so much more. Thanks. Colin

[Peter Brydon]

I hope the attached notes will be legible, they are part of a Liverpool Scottish archive I acquired some time ago and were prepared by a Kings Regiment officer with, I think, assistance from the Liverpool Scottish.

I hope they will be of interest,

P.B.

[dubaiguy]

Maybe a stupid question, but if you don't ask..............Is there any identifiable difference between the 1908-1937 10th King's Liverpool badge and the later readopted badge?

If the Highland Brigade badge was in use to 1992, when was the readopted 10th badge in use.
Mark

[Peter Brydon]

Hello Mark,

The old 10th Liverpool Scottish design was taken back into use in 1992, there were a number of variations/issues ( six according to a list prepared by the Regimental Museum ).I think the badge ceased to be worn in 2006 when the Duke of Lancasters Regiment was formed and its badge was taken into wear by both what was left of the Liverpool Scottish in the Reserves and the Liverpool Scottish Cadets.

Most of the later issues (5 out of the 6 if the Museum is right ) can be easily recognised by the 3 lugs on the rear, the bottom one being to hold the hackle in position.

There is one of the later issues ( again according to the Museum ) which only has two lugs and I think this may be the one with a rather dull finish, I need to check.

A picture of the 3 examples I have in my collection is attached, the badge with the dull finish is on the left.

Difficult to put into words but if you handle badges from both periods ( even without the 3rd lug ) the more modern badges don't have the same feel as the older badges.


Peter

[dubaiguy]

Thank you Peter. I'll watch out for that.

Just one more question if I may (I realize that was two questions in the first thread not one, so I know I may be pushing my luck).

I'm cataloguing some common Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders badges. From your earlier thread (I must have missed it first time around) I've now got 1937 to 1967 for the white metal Liverpool Scottish badge.

Chris Marsh has evidence that the a/a version was sealed in 1965, but never issued in the period up to 1967 and was probably only ever used later to cadets. I read his comment on the cadets as apocryphal i.e. 'said to have been' used by cadets. Do you have an opinion on whether it was used by cadets and if it was, a likely time period? My inference is perhaps up to the adoption of the Duke of Lancaster's badge as referenced in your earlier post?????????????

Thanks Peter.
Mark

[Peter Brydon]

Mark,

Picture of my framed sealed pattern for the anodised Liverpool Scottish ( Cameron ) badge is attached. It is dated 8th January 1965.

My understanding is that the Liverpool Scottish Museum say that the anodised badge was only ever worn by the Cadets ( and I presume this includes the cadets of Liverpool Collegiate CCF who were affiliated to the Liverpool Scottish ). I cannot say if the Cameron type anodised badge was worn by Cadets until they adopted the Duke of Lancasters Regiment badge but I will make some enquiries.

I don't have any evidence one way or the other that what the Museum say about the Battalion refusing to wear the anodised badge is right or not but the Curator, who I have known for at least 40 years, served in the battalion before becoming Curator, so if anyone should know it would be him.

Regards

Peter

[Phil2M]

I like the way you have framed that pattern card up, a lot. It looks great.

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Phil,

The back of the frame is Perspex so the seals on the back of the card can still be seen.

Peter

[KLR]

A few points. There is information about hackle use in a WO document at TNA - but I can't access it at the moment.
The Pattern card that Peter has clearly shows that the description has been altered
- I have a similar one (courtesy of Peter of course !). Yes, the officer that P mentioned is where the information comes from.
According to Chris Marsh (who got his information from the same officer mentioned above) there are 4 versions of the New Metal type badge introduced in 1992. I have managed to track down all four types (below):
1st, 1992 - Patt 28136/1993 (same MoD Patt for all) LB&B, 3 loops
2nd, 1997 - LB&B 3 lps
3rd, 1997, LB&B 2 lps
4th 1998, no maker mark, 3 lps (sawn off in this example) - this one described as the "official" pattern !

there s also a silver officers example - if anyone knows of one going spare PLEASE let me know !