372nd (Flint, and Denbigh Yeomanry) Rgt, RA, T.A. - KK2351

[GriffMJ]

Thats great Marc and thank you for taking the time and effort to do that

It confirms that once they became RWF they were cap & collar'd RWF...... the image of the Flint, and Denbigh Yeo cap badge is true to its likeness (almost).... and the "C&D Yeo" badge is still a bit of a mystery.

Lets hope Kevin (41st) can show the "C&D Yeo" cap badge images soon ......

[54Bty]

This is my incomplete C & D badge.

Marc

[GriffMJ]

Thank you Marc

There does appear to be some dispute over this particular design of feathers? I really look forward to seeing Kevins pictures now.....

I dont know if Edwards first edition had the "C&D Yeo" badge in it......... it does appear to be odd that the first reprint in "1980" has the badge in it ....when previous "revisions" don't (am I right in saying that)?

Your badge did have a slider once upon a time and I am willing to bet it had the infamous 1mm x 15mm J.R.GAUNT.LONDON makers mark on it........ just like the alleged Wilts Yeo below:-



Below is another CDY of the same belonging to another forum member (I have not seen the back of it yet).... next to yours. This was collected, to his memory, in 1966 and to his knowledge a "C&D Yeo" Cap badge was worn for one year in 1950?

Also, there is a bit of abiguity here because Edwards description of the "C&D Yeo" cap badge in his book :- Cap badge "White metal with the scroll in gilding metal" is different to the badge shown below. Edwards illustration does not look like the badge shown below..... whereas the other later badge to the regiment (KK2351) does look like the badge it depicts (bar some minor detail)? My view is that his illustration looks more like that of the later 1969 Royal Hussars (PWO) cap badge with a shorter scroll?

[GriffMJ]

According to the Edwards illustration and his description then this is what I think the badge looks like (or very close to it) in bi-metal ....... "if" it actually exists (and "if" the one above is, indeed, a fake)?

UPDATED:- AA Fake of the C&D Yeo ......as imaged in the book.

[GriffMJ]

Further:-

The other disturbing aspect of the "C&D Yeo" displayed above is the fact that these exist (see below).... and they dont fill me with confidence in light of the fact of their source and also in view of the fact that they look nothing like the real examples.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

This is my in complete C & D badge.

Marc

Marc,
I'd say 100% that's a Big Fat Fake, the slider has dropped off you can see the braze mark!

Andy

[GriffMJ]

Staff Sgt, Gunner and the Colonel (Cadre 1968-71).
372nd (Flint & Denbighshire Yeo) Regiment, RA. [1956-68]
Prince of Wales's visit to Flint in 1969.

* Note the BiM Cap Badge size POWFs NCO arm badge. (as worn in the DHY)
** RA Cap Badge worn in blues and No2 dress with AA Flint & Denbigh Yeo collars. I suspect that the BiM & AA Cap badges for the Flint & Denbigh Yeo were worn in the beret only.

[GriffMJ]

Right..... in 1967 they are wearing the RA cap badge in their beret. F&DY collars. If the F&DY Cap badge was worn at all it was probably within the first 5 years of existence under Colonel R T M Williams OBE MC TD. I am still looking for the Colonel post 1966 (Cadre).... I have his image but not his name (It is not Williams.... the medals are wrong)

* The Band in the photo is the 3rd Carb's

[Mike H]

Griff, I have Flint and Denbigh and Caernarvon and Denbigh badges in a/a in my collection. Personally ,I'd say they were cap badge size rather than beret size. They are the same size as the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry cap badge rather than the beret badge. Obviously this doesn't stop it's use in both forms of headress.
There is a dodgy Caernarvon and Denbigh a/a badge with a blank slider and the bottom of the feathers is completely different to the genuine item. Strangely the title scroll is made in the same way with a rod bent over at either end of the scroll.

[GriffMJ]

Thanks Mike .... Gaunt is the maker for the true C&D Yeo & F&D Yeo and yes your right about the Pembs Yeo.... also found with the 10thH. The usual "fakes" I have shown examples of in one of the posts above..... they are just outright duds.

I would like to think that the F&DYeo did wear their own cap badge, at least at the start in mid 1950s. Their Colonel was a local man (Bank Manager) and won an MC in the RA during the War. He was there from the start 1956 until 1966. Col R T M Williams OBE MC TD. The cap badges were made at the few I have seen in collections appear to have been worn..... the BiM. The AA examples I have seen not so "used".

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Thanks Mike .... Gaunt is the maker for the true C&D Yeo & F&D Yeo and yes your right about the Pems Yeo.... also found with the 10thH. The usual "fakes" I have shown examples of in one of the posts above..... they are just outright duds.

I would like to think that the F&DYeo did wear their own cap badge, at least at the start in mid 1950s. Their Colonel was a local man (Bank Manager) and won an MC in the RA during the War. He was there from the start 1956 until 1966. Col R T M Williams OBE MC TD. The cap badges were made at the few I have seen in collections appear to have been worn..... the BiM. The AA examples I have seen not so "used".

Yes ,both badges marked JR Gaunt London. Besides the title scroll the only difference is the length of the feather tips, which touch the scroll on one and are far shorter on the other .

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Yes ,both badges marked JR Gaunt London. Besides the title scroll the only difference is the length of the feather tips, which touch the scroll on one and are far shorter on the other .

Post 1970 you will find its used again by Gaunt (BHAM)...... in BiM....but its a bit tatty compared to the original strikes. Must have been struck for the collectors market?

* Here is the chrome car badge for the 372nd (F&DY) Regiment RA by Gaunt on the DHY enamel colours.

[Mike H]

Nice car badge Griiff.
Ive seen the a/a collars about,not very often though. Scroll reads "Denbigh" is that correct ? So if you have some keep a tight hold on them.

[badjez]

FYI

Ordnance List of Change published 31.12.51.
C4752- Badges, Cap, Caernarvon and Denbigh Yeomanry (Cat No CB 2376).
Introduction.
The above-mentioned Cap badge (Pattern No 13954), announced by Minor Change 2133 is hereby introduced.
The design is a white metal Plume surmounted by a coronet and Scroll in gilding metal, the Scroll bearing the words ‘10th Royal Hussars’.
{Amended 31.05.52. Above paragraph deleted and substituted-
The design is a white metal Plume of three feathers, superimposed at the base is a crown in gilding metal, below the crown, a broken scroll in white metal bearing the motto ‘ICH DIEN’. At the base of the whole is a gilding metal scroll inscribed ‘Caernarvon and Denbigh Yeo’.}

From the above I presume that a bi-metal version had been introduced prior to 1947 as there is a reference to Minor Change 2133 [I've never traced an extant list of these].

Stephen.

[Mike Jackson]

A little more - adding the date upon which the Yeomanry title was bestowed upon the duplicate unit; 69 Med Regt RA:

69th Medium Regiment, R.A. (T.A.)
HQ: Colwyn Bay
241st (Carnarvon) Bty: Bangor
242nd (Carnarvon) Bty: Llandudno

69th Medium Regiment mobilised at Colwyn Bay and sailed to Le Havre on 1 May 1940. At the start of the campaign, the 69th was in action at Tieghem with III Corps and under 44th Infantry Division. It evacuated at Dunkirk by 30 May. It then returned to the United Kingdom and was based in Eastern Command in the autumn of 1940 It was located at Three Bridges in late 1941-early 1942. The regiment added (Carnarvon and Denbigh) (Yeomanry) to its name on 17 February 1942.
The regiment was sent to North Africa during the last quarter of 1942. It served under XXX Corps at El Alamein in October 1942 and fought with the corps across North Africa through May 1943. It joined 5th Army Group RA on its formation in North Africa on 11 February 1943. It remained in North Africa during the Sicilian Campaign and then landed at Salerno on 9 September 1943 under 2nd AGRA. It served with this formation in the Italian Campaign until mid-1944, when it left Italy. It was still in the Middle East in July 1944, but moved to the United Kingdom by the end of 1944. It then moved to Northwest Europe in 1945 and served there until the end of the war.
From March 1945 - June 1945 was under command of 17AGRA in N.W. Europe
as part of "Dunkirk Force" the only Medium Regt of the Force laying siege to the town.